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  1. #1

    2000 Genesis FFI intermittently quitting

    Hi again,

    What a fantastic forum! I would like to extend my gratitude for the enormous help with the fuel line issue I had (different thread). You can't get this kind of help anywhere else.

    I finally got this machine in the water, and I'm having issues that I pretty much expected to have, I just don't know where to look to fix it. I bought the machine with 45 hours on it end of season 2007, and I don't know it's history (2000 - 2007). We put six hours on it last year (2008, but had similar problems (described below) with it then, and now I am trying to get it into proper working order. This is kind of lenghty, but I want to be accurate.

    I took it out yesterday and it started right up. Ran steady for about five minutes topping out at 5K RPM and 40MPH. Then, it kicked in and got up to about 6200 RPM, 50MPH. Ran decent like that for a few minutes, with a couple of instances where it would bog down for a split second but not quit. Then, I released the throttle and idled. When applying the throttle again, it sounded like it was trying to get speed but then just quit. Started again right away, but same apply the throttle and quit thing. The rest of this test run was (re) starting it, trying to get to speed and having it quit, sometimes with the red light flashing a couple times and "Check Engine" displayed on the instrument panel. Managed to idle it back to the dock and let it sit for 10 minutes or so.

    Second attempt ran beautifully. Ran it out for at least 20 minutes. Full responsiveness at all speeds. 6700 RPM and 55 MPH. No quitting, no bogging down at all. Took it back to the dock.

    Third attempt about 10 minutes later. Idled out past no wake, then quit when throttle applied. This happened a couple more times, but then ran beautifully as described above for probably 15 minutes.

    Fourth and final attempt, wife took out with son. They described it working great, but then quit a couple times after about 3 minutes. Two attempts to start it, then working great for another 5 minutes. One more quitting episode, but starting right away after that and coming back to dock.

    The times when it would quit several times in a row, it seemed like the idle would be fine, but then if you applied too much throttle too fast, it would quit again. Time might have been a factor, too, with waiting a bit to start it maybe assuring better luck of it running continuously.

    This was actually better than I ever got it to run last year, as it rarely made it over 5K RPM last year, and it seemed it would quit most frequently when it would get up to 5500+, red light, check engine. What I described here was really a smooth, encouraging run for it. I just need to get it to stop quitting, but I'm not sure where to look, or even what to tell a service shop.

    I'm sorry if this is too much detail, but I don't know what this indicates, and it seems like the long-winded approach might be helpful in diagnosing it, since it mostly seemed to run better after an initial break in period (this year).

    Thanks in advance for any help you wonderful people may have for me.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Click here for general things to check on a fuel injected Polaris

    Click here for information related to the Ficht fuel injected engine

    Since you saw the Check Engine message, the EMM probably has stored codes which can be helpful. If you want to read the codes, look here;
    How to read Polaris Ficht EMM trouble codes without special software or a computer

    I would suspect the TPS, is failing but it could be something else.

    Check that none of the small water cooling hoses for the stator cover and EMM are kinked or blocked.

    When it is running but not able to reach full 6700 RPM, does it run roughly, or smoothly?
    Does the Check Engine light come on every time it is low on power, or just sometimes?

    When it dies and you try to restart right away, does it crank at full cranking RPM, or does it crank slowly?

  3. #3
    Thanks again for the incrediby helpful advice!

    I'll check the hoses tonight or tomorrow when I get a chance. I'll also do something about the service code light this weekend. I'd really like to get that information. That's a great help!

    When it's running at the lower RPM, it runs smoothly for the most part. The first time there were maybe two times it bogged for a split second, but that was it. It's mostly smooth operation, just at a lower RPM.

    The check engine only comes on once in a while. It's not consistent. After my first test run, it didn't come on again at all. I did see it a couple times last year, though, but, once again, not every time. In fact, mostly not.

    It seems to crank at full RPM when it dies and I start it back up. By that I mean that I didn't notice a difference between starting it after it had been turned off intentionally and starting it after it had just died.

    After reading the information on the TPS, it seems like it's probably a good idea to replace that either way. Should I order the older model one from babbit's, or a newer model one? Are they compatible?

    Thanks much!

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcT View Post
    ... After reading the information on the TPS, it seems like it's probably a good idea to replace that either way.

    Should I order the older model one from babbit's, or a newer model one? Are they compatible?...
    This should tell you;
    Ficht TPS versions, sources

    The non-pig-tail and pigtail versions are mechanically different where they connect to the throttle shaft, and so are not interchangeable.

    You just want the latest version of the same TPS type.

    Tip: Order your new TPS by the current correct part number, not by PWC model. Sometimes the online vendor model look-up results are not 100% correct

  5. #5
    Hi again.

    I built the LED sensor and got the code(s) out of the EMM. Thanks for the link to that. All it spit out, over and over, was 18. According to the service manual, it's an Alternator Voltage Above Expected Range, and is one of the three codes that initiates the S.L.O.W. operation mode. Could the problems I described all be attributed to this, and could it possibly be as easy as replacing the alternator?

    Thanks for all the help.

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Clear the EMM codes, and see if the codes re-occurs.

    One limitation with the LED code reading, is you don't know how old the code is.

    Connect your volt meter to the White/Red wire somewhere, and see if the voltage is stable in the 40-45 volt range over a wide RPM range.

    If the voltage is not stable, or the code returns, then the EMM is likely to need repair.

    The only non-EMM way for the injector voltage to be to too high is a grounding or wiring problem, but that seems remote.

    A bad stator possibly could cause high voltage, but I have never heard of it doing so.

  7. #7
    How do I clear the EMM codes without the software? I looked around a bit on the links I have here and in the service manual and I can't find any reference to that procedure without the software.

    Also, should I replace the TPS still (anyway?), or is this indicating that the TPS isn't the problem?

    Thanks much.

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcT View Post
    How do I clear the EMM codes without the software?

    I looked around a bit on the links I have here and in the service manual and I can't find any reference to that procedure without the software.

    Also, should I replace the TPS still (anyway?), or is this indicating that the TPS isn't the problem?...
    EMM code clearing is covered in the attached documents in the first post
    The 1999 manual is the only year that covers this.

    How to read Polaris Ficht EMM trouble codes without special software or a computer

    A bit tedious to do the code clearing, but better than not being able to do it!

    I would buy a spare TPS, even if you don't think you need it. Always good to have a spare, and you never know when you might need it, even if just to confirm that the TPS is not causing a problem.

  9. #9
    Hi again,

    I cleared the code(s) and bought a new TPS, which I plan on replacing tonight, and taking the machine out again tomorrow for more testing. Is there anything I should know about replacing the TPS that might trip me up?

    Thanks.

  10. #10
    Hi,

    The service manual mentions calibration when replacing the TPS, but I don't have software. Is there a way around that, or is it good enough to just replace it?

    Thanks again!

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