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  1. #1

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    K447, or anyone Virage I problem

    I have no idea whats goin on with this thing now. Had spark last night (weak spark), but no start.

    Pulled the codes. 43 25 144
    43: High engine temp
    25: High EMM temp
    144: Water inject. failure

    37 lbs fuel psi

    Found small coolant exit line pinched off (probable cause of everything initially)

    Go through rest of the coolant system, everything looks good.

    Figure i'll throw a good battery in and see if it fires. Removed jumpers etc.. for pulling trouble codes.

    Put it all back together, hook up battery, no spark.

    11.5v at battery while cranking on a newer (fully charged) odyssey)


    I believe stator checks out fine, ohms on touch high side with some, but that's better than low resistance.

    12v stator wires. Pins 1&12, .8ohms Pins 2&11 .6ohms (Spec range 0.1- 0.3)

    45v Stator wires. Pins 3&10, 4&9, 5&8 ohmed out ok i think, higher side at .5ohms and .6 ohms Spec range (.3-.5)

    All 12 pins = No continuity to ground.

    Temp sensor 999ohms (within spec)
    CPS 144.8 ohms (under 200 ohm maximum)


    So then I start checking the 8pin that plugs into the EMM.

    Pin1 12.8v
    Pin2 Nothing while cranking
    Pin3 Grd w/continuity
    Pin4 " "
    Pin5 " "
    Pin6 " "
    Pin7 Nothing while cranking
    Pin8 12.8v

    Pin 2 & Pin 7 are 45vDC White/Red wires. I'm assuming these should NOT have continuity to ground......but I'm getting it.
    Does this generate in the stator, or in the EMM?????

    Ran into that and thought, this can not be good.




    Any thought's advice??


  2. #2

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    Also, forgot to add, coil, plug leads etc.. all test fine.

    Maybe I have some wires rubbing and shorting in the storage area??? Could be why the ski is running intermitenly.

    For those that don't know....ski supposedly runs for 5-10 mins then dies like tether is pulled, but hasnt started for me.

    First time digging deep on a DFI, and not liking it.

  3. #3
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    ...So then I start checking the 8pin that plugs into the EMM.

    Pin1 12.8v
    Pin2 Nothing while cranking
    Pin3 Grd w/continuity
    Pin4 " "
    Pin5 " "
    Pin6 " "
    Pin7 Nothing while cranking
    Pin8 12.8v...
    These Ficht systems are different, that is for sure. Most of the challenge is getting your head around the different diagnostic approaches that are needed, since the EMM sits in the center of everything.

    If you have a spare EMM on hand, this is where it becomes useful. Install the spare EMM using just the 12 and 8 pin connections, and see if the engine now runs. If yes, original EMM has a problem in the power section.

    If still no go, also swap over the 40-pin connector. Now the spare EMM is running everything. If engine runs, the other EMM needs repair.

    If still no go, then the stator, flywheel or some other engine component has a problem.

    EMM operation - Power section
    The EMM has two separate sections inside.

    The EMM power section gets fed AC voltage via the 12-pin connector from the stator coils. Three coils for the 45 volt power, and two coils for the '12 volt' power (aka battery charging).

    The EMM power section outputs all the DC power for the entire system on the 8-pin connector. Pins 1 and 8 are paired and carry the 12+ volts charging current to the battery (directly connected to the battery, via a Reset breaker), and pins 2 and 7 (also paired) handle the 45 volt output.

    The 45 volt White/Red wires then connect via splices to the big capacitor, and also run to each injector.

    Here is where it gets interesting. The White/Red 45 volt power coming out of the 8-pin EMM connector is also looped back into the EMM on the 40 pin connector in two places. One feeds the ignition subsystem (aka CDI).

    Another 45 volt White/Red feed loops through the pair of 'diagnostic' 4-pin connections, where the Digital Wrench software cables would connect. The White/Red wire loops through the mated diagnostic connectors, then it also goes back into the EMM on another of the 40-pin connections. This 45 volt feed powers the EMM itself, and powers the fuel injector drivers.

    When you unplug the 8-pin connector, you have isolated the EMM power section from both the stator AC coils, and the DC loads.

    When you connect the EMM service power connector jumper between pins 1 and 7 on the 8-pin harness connector, what you are doing is feeding 12 volt battery power into the EMM 45 volt power inputs.

    The EMM computer itself can function on 12 volts, but the fuel injectors can not actually inject fuel (they can still click internally). I have not checked whether the CDI section can generate proper spark with only 12 volts

  4. #4

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    Yeah, messy!!!!!!!!

    So, If i'm understanding the system correctly, If i unplug the 40pin connector, and the 8pin, I can isolate the white/red wire from the EMM. If i'm still getting continuity to ground, it may be in the wiring on the ski yet. If I no longer have continuity to ground with it all unplugged, it's safe to say I have a short in the EMM.



    I ran into another post of a 800 DFI and saw their is a place I can send the EMM and have it checked/repaired.

    I just want to eliminate everything else before I go wasting a ton of time waiting on that!


    EDIT: Of course, this all assuming that I should NOT be getting the continuity to ground. I just figured since it's a 45vDC wire that it shouldn't.

  5. #5
    Wow this is a lot of very impressive information.

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Put a meter on the White/Red wires, with both injectors plugged in. What voltage are you seeing while cranking?

    Should be over 20 volts while cranking, then jump to 40-45 volts when engine starts.

    A simple test for weak Ficht injector voltage is to prime the intakes with a little fuel, then try starting. If you have spark, it will fire up.

    If the injector voltage is weak during cranking, the injectors can not actually inject any fuel (spark, but no start).

    BUT, if you prime the engine and it then starts up, the higher than cranking RPM generates stronger power on the 'weak' 45 volt feed, and the engine continues to run until you shut it down. But it won't start again unless you prime it again.

    The 45 volt system is probably still not putting out full voltage (and therefore the injectors may be running lean), but it is enough to keep the engine running.

    Either the EMM power section is weak, or the stator or flywheel magnets are bad.

  7. #7
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedlineR6 View Post
    ... So, If i'm understanding the system correctly, If i unplug the 40pin connector, and the 8pin, I can isolate the white/red wire from the EMM.

    If i'm still getting continuity to ground

    ...EDIT: Of course, this all assuming that I should NOT be getting the continuity to ground. I just figured since it's a 45vDC wire that it shouldn't.
    There is a huge capacitor in the 45 volt system, connected between White/Red and ground. And it is difficult to unplug that capacitor, as the rubber boot is very snug.

    That capacitor will ohm as a short, unless you leave the meter connected for a very long time.

    You would have to check the wiring diagram to see where that capacitor's ground connection actually goes

  8. #8

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    6.99vDC tether unplugged

    7.20vDC tether plugged in this is at the Mag injector


    Got No voltage on W/R wire at the 8pin

  9. #9
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedlineR6 View Post
    ...saw there is a place I can send the EMM and have it checked/repaired...
    More Ficht related info here.

    DFI Technologies - Repair service for Polaris Ficht EMM modules

  10. #10

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    Ok, i do see the CAP is shown grounded in the wiring scheme, but as you say, don't know where.

    And it wouldn't be working on a jetski if everything wasn't buried in the worst places to get to



    Their isn't anything in the diagnostic mode that would keep me from getting spark is there? Maybe I can try resetting the codes and maybe it will magically start sparking again

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