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  1. #1

    Removing Oil Injection

    As I rebuild my 96 slt 700 i'm being encouraged by the mechanic to remove the oil injection and pre-mix. his logic is it removes a potential problem ....and some weight....while only modestly increasing the hassle factor. but, since i add stablizer (ethanol killer) anyway it doesn't seem like that much of a hassle to add oil too.

    Any downsides I'm not aware of?

    I see a block off kit on sbt...is this the right way to do it or is there a better method?

    Thanks

    Randy in Florida


  2. #2
    ujustlost's Avatar
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    I'v never heard of an oil pump going bad, at least not on a Polaris. I hear all the time of people loosing lines off their oil pump, but thats not the pumps fault. I think these pumps take a lot of beating from people who blame the pumps for going bad when what they meant to say is the line went bad or came off, again has nothing to do with the pump.

    Personaly I think pre mix is a big hassel, although I do pre mix a little oil in the gas anyways just for good measures, but thats partialy due to how much I ride. When I go out on the ski, its for the entire day and sometimes I have to stop at the marina and fill up. So if that the case with you, now you have to bring oil with you as well. ANd it is very easy to forget your running pre mix now after all those years of not and forget to add the oil after you fill up. Just my thoughts. Hope this helps Mike

  3. #3
    This is how I run a jetski shop in the desert nmpeter's Avatar
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    I'm in the same school of thought, while there are some issues with injection systems (the ones that stick in my mind are the seadoo oil pump drives) I'm thinking that a premix ski is just one brain fart away from siezure.

    I actually had a guy who snagged a new yamaha superjet ask me if I could put an oil injection system on his ski since premix was too much of a hassle when he was out for the day. He didn't realize this when he popped uber big bucks for this new standup, which arrived at the shop in a crate.

    I'd say personal preference, but my typical mantra is the old, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    I often strongly suggest to customers to replace oil lines if they still look original..which is 99% of the case. It shocks me that I've seen some SBT installations where the "mechancic" didn't consider replacing the oil lines,even when the engine was totally out of the hull. I guess little minds can't deal with those even smaller oil line clamps.

    Of coruse SBT suggesting removal of oil pumps and going premix is to reduce failures casued by broken oil lines IMHO, but I would think they get more stuff back frompremix problems, but then again maybe not, or they would include new oil lines as part of the rebuilt engine kits.

    This will be a debate that rages on, until two strokes are a fond memory and totally unknown by those riding the new hydrogen fusion powered skis....so do you think we need to get rid of the nitrogen filters every 1000 hours or what?

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by floridarandy View Post
    ...I'm being encouraged by the mechanic to remove the oil injection and pre-mix. his logic is it removes a potential problem ....and some weight....while only modestly increasing the hassle factor. but, since i add stabilizer (ethanol killer) anyway it doesn't seem like that much of a hassle to add oil too.

    Any downsides I'm not aware of?

    I see a block off kit on sbt...is this the right way to do it or is there a better method?...
    The Polaris oil injection pumps are quite reliable. It is important to maintain the oil lines/clamps and replace the oil filter, of course.

    Reduced weight?
    Not important at all, in my opinion.

    If you now have to carry oil bottles and a measuring cup with you, that has the potential to be very messy. Oil containers do not like to be bounced around in the storage bucket, and they can make a huge mess if the oil gets out. Same for carrying oil in the trailer box or car trunk.

    With oil injection, you have plenty of oil capacity in the oil tank for a full days riding, so the oil bottles can stay at home.

    If you run pre-mix, the oil must actually be mixed into the gas, not just dumped in the tank right before you ride away.

    The oil will first tend settle at the bottom of the fuel tank, where the fuel pump intakes are located. If that oil blob gets sucked into the fuel system, not only will the engine run poorly until it gets less oil and more gas, but now the rest of the fuel in the tank has less oil ratio than you think it does.

    Different guys have different strategies for ensuring the oil is well mixed into the fuel, but it just adds another layer of hassle to the pre-mix process.

    Loan your ski to a friend who refuels without knowing about pre-mixing, or you just forget to pre-mix one time, and the engine is toast.

    If you want to run 'insurance', keep the oil injection system, and use an oil that is also good for 100:1 pre-mix. Add it to the gasoline tank at 100:1 ratio (or even a bit thinner). If the oil injection does fail, the engine will still be lubricated. And the extra pre-mix oil won't be so much that it fouls the spark plugs.

    Ethanol stabilizers. The only thing you can do with ethanol fuel is use it up quickly, and keep the fuel tank full and away from moisture as best you can.

    The stabilizer will keep the gasoline itself from going stale, but as far as I know nothing is able to prevent the ethanol from reacting with water in the fuel tank. You just have to keep the water out, and keep using the fuel before the ethanol has time to attract too much moisture.

  5. #5
    all great points. our ski lives at the lake where there is no public access and no fuel. all fuel has to be transported in 5-6 gallon containers from the gas station so some of the pre-mix hassle is removed. if oil is added prior to filling the containers and "jostled" back to the lake across bumpy dirt roads i feel comfortable the mix will be ready for the ski. i've had this ski fail and my last outboard fail due to the failure of oil injection lines and since i'm not much of a mechanic i simply assumed the pre-mix would keep me bullet proof.

    of greater concern is the ethanol issue raised by K447. our ski runs maybe 3-5 times during a 12 month season here in florida (memorial day, maybe a couple of times in the summer and labor day) since we live 4 hours from our lake house.

    since all gas now has E10 what's the best policy in our situation. we've run stabilizer in all our gas, have a fogging kit on the engine and shut off the fuel and run the carbs dry before we leave it. there's always some amount of gas in the tank tho during the weeks/months we dont' use it. i know of no practical way to remove the fuel from the tank. would it simply be better to leave the tank full w/ stabilized fuel?

    thanks

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by floridarandy View Post
    ...our ski runs maybe 3-5 times during a 12 month season here in Florida (memorial day, maybe a couple of times in the summer and labor day)...

    since all gas now has E10 what's the best policy in our situation?

    ...we've run stabilizer in all our gas, have a fogging kit on the engine and shut off the fuel and run the carbs dry before we leave it.

    There's always some amount of gas in the tank tho during the weeks/months we dont' use it. i know of no practical way to remove the fuel from the tank.

    Would it simply be better to leave the tank full w/ stabilized fuel?...
    You may be able to find premium gasoline (around 90-92 octane) without ethanol, if you hunt around.

    Minimum recommended octane for Polaris engines with ethanol blended fuel is 89 octane.

    In general, best storage practice is to fill the tank with stabilized premium fuel, but leave a little air space for expansion. Use a Marine grade Ethanol compatible stabilizer.

    Fuel tends to lose octane as it ages, so leaving premium grade in the tank gives you a little more headroom before the fuel is unsuitable for the engine.

    Run the engine out of the water for 10-20 seconds to get the stabilized fuel through the fuel system, and burp the throttle a few times to blow the excess water out of the exhaust and water box.

    Fog the engine, spray the engine exterior with anti-corrosion protectant (such as Fluid Film).

    Not much more you can really do to protect the engine.

    Ethanol in gasoline - not good for Marine use, how to buy non-Ethanol gasoline

  7. #7
    quick follow up....so you DON'T recommend cutting off fuel and running engine "dry" of fuel for storage, i.e., is it OK to leave fuel in carbs whle it sets? always thought that led to carb problems. thanks for the info.

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by floridarandy View Post
    quick follow up....so you DON'T recommend cutting off fuel and running engine "dry" of fuel for storage, i.e., is it OK to leave fuel in carbs whle it sets? always thought that led to carb problems. thanks for the info.
    I don't think there is any problem with running the carb's dry, as long as the fuel that was in there was already stabilized.

    When the engine dies, there can still be some gasoline left in the carbs. The stabilizer helps prevent it from going too gummy.

  9. #9
    BBCaprice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by floridarandy View Post
    quick follow up....so you DON'T recommend cutting off fuel and running engine "dry" of fuel for storage, i.e., is it OK to leave fuel in carbs whle it sets? always thought that led to carb problems. thanks for the info.
    If its got STABIL in it
    WD40 works excellent as anti corrosive on exterior eng parts/pump

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    If you want to run 'insurance', keep the oil injection system, and use an oil that is also good for 100:1 pre-mix. Add it to the gasoline tank at 100:1 ratio (or even a bit thinner). If the oil injection does fail, the engine will still be lubricated. And the extra pre-mix oil won't be so much that it fouls the spark plugs.
    Not to hijack this thread but I like this idea. Are there any recommendations for oils that are good for 100:1 pre-mix?

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