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  1. #1
    Team RTYD burton9010's Avatar
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    msx 150 wastegate problem?

    I have a 2004 polaris msx 150 that is getting stuck at 35-40mph. Before if was getting stuck at this speed and then would pop out of it and go to top speed but now it is stuck at 35-40 and will not go any faster. It is also idling high it will go to about 1800rpm and then idle back down. This has the updated gray box for the wategate. Could this be a wastegate problem or something eles?


  2. #2
    Team RTYD burton9010's Avatar
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    I forgot to say the wastegate arm is moving freely

  3. #3

    wastegate problems

    I recently had to address this, and here is my diagnostic process.

    Hope it helps.

    Okay, so the wastegate arm is moving freely. But:

    1. "Freely" means with no resistance whatsoever. The only way I could check this was to remove the wastegate/actuator connection. With no connection to the actuator, does wastegate arm STILL move "freely"? And remember, "freely" means with no resistance whatsoever. It should flip back and forth effortlessly. My arm wasn't moving at all.

    This was obviously my problem, but it's always prudent to make sure the rest of the system you're working on is functioning correctly.

    2. I pressure tested the actuator before reattaching its connection to the wastegate arm. My actuator was working, however, when reading about it online, I discovered that the actuator was an older model that evicently doesn't operate as well as a new(er) one that is available. Lots of problems with it. I replaced my actuator with the new model.

    3. I disconnected the wastegate solenoid pressure valve (the gray thing with a hose running from it to the actuator) , tested its resistance, and used the battery to test the solenoid's simple on/off operation. Positive power to red lead, neg power to black lead. When 12 v power is applied, the solenoid should "click" each time. My solenoid valve operated correctly, but any resistance reading I took fell short of the desired resistance listed in the manual. However, the solenoid worked perfectly despite the odd reading. The only other thing I'd tell you about the solenoid is: make certain your solenoid valve is GRAY. If it isn't, buy the new one. I've seen the older ones fail on three of my friends who own MSXs.

    So, my problem was the wastegate itself (the arm was frozed solid and it took me two weeks to free it. If you need more info on this process, use the search engine and search for the term WASTEGATE. The procedure from "ROCKY ROAD" is particularly well written, and if this is your problem, it works perfectly.

    As far as the odd reading with the solenoid valve, I have no further info. I posted more than a few questions about it, but I was never able to get an answer beyond what I said above. This was a particularly quiet thread. But the part is readily available, and since it costs more than $100, I'm going to wait until the old one definately fails.

    Hope this helps. I remember my wastegate oddessy all too well. It wasn't fun, but afterward the ski worked like a charm . . . until my son stepped on the exhaust pipe with the seat off and cracked the pipe . . . but that's another story for another time.

    Good luck.

    FLN

  4. #4
    Team RTYD burton9010's Avatar
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    ok so more the likely if I put 12v to the solinod and it pop's then start looking more for the frozen wastgate.

  5. #5
    Team RTYD burton9010's Avatar
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    I see a few other threads talking about this and also asking if the temp warning light comes on. I was told by the owner that he was riding it and the temp light came on but then after a few mins shut off. I dont know if this helps or if it points more to the wastegate not opening and making the exhaust over heat.

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelancenovelist View Post
    I recently had to address this, and here is my diagnostic process.

    Hope it helps...
    Nicely written!

    Thanks for contributing - it really does help many others

  7. #7

    Wastegate Problem

    K447: Thanks, but I wouldn't know any of that if it hadn't been for you and a few other hulkers who patiently answered my questions over and over. It felt good to give back for a change.

    Everyone: You know, I read a post every now and then that states that somewhere out there, there is an exhaust manifold and wastegate section available in separate parts, so you don't have to buy the whole thing as a unit. I mean, the problem seems to affect every MSX 150 ever made. I'm sure there are those who heard about the problem early and took maintenance steps to keep the wastegate arm from freezing. I'd be willing to bet that most of these are probably run in fresh water only, because in saltwater . . . well, you get the point. But, overall, the majority of 150s seem to sucumb to this problen sooner or later.

    With that in mind, has anyone seen these for sale? Actually for sale? I don't mean something you heard or read, or a friend of a friend kind of thing, but actual items for sale to the general public?

    I don't need one since my ski got straightened out. This is one of those loose ends from my time researching the wastegate problem, and, man-o-man, do I ever hate lose ends.

    FLN

  8. #8

    Wastegate problems

    Burton9019:

    The steps in my previous post are ordered by what is most likely to occur. The wastegate arm is simple to test: disconnect the actuator and see if it flops back and forth "freely" and effortlessly. Then move on from there. If you, say, buy a new $100 solenoid valve before ensuring that the WG arm is functioning, you're going to end up, sooner or later, buying something for no absolutely no reason. Ig the arm is stuck, and you can unstick it using any one of the methods on greenhulk, it will cost you nothing to repair this problem.

    If you start from the other end of the process, as my son once told me about my repairs, dollars will go a-flyin'. He was seven then. Funny what you can learn from a seven-year-old, huh?

    Oh, and as for your question about the dash's red warning light:

    When my wastegate was stuck, the red light would come on when I started the motor, then go off. Then, after warm up, when I tried to cruise above 4800 rpms or so, it would come on and stay on until I killed the engine and restarted it. But, you know, the light came on tied to the turbo; as in, the turbo doesn't work without the wastegate being able to move.

    According to my research, this is a very common problem, and it's almost always due to the wastegate arm being stuck.

    Soooo, unstick it! (if it only happened as easily as that sounds, right?)

    FLN

  9. #9
    Team RTYD burton9010's Avatar
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    I got to work on and test the ski today and it is for sure not the waste gate arm getting stuck. I disconnected it and it moved freely and then I lubed it some more. I took it to the lake to test it and still is acting up. Max speed is around 40 mph and max rpm is right around 6100. If I give it full throttle from the start I can hear the turbo spooling up. When I let it come down to idle it will rev up and then back down back and forth about once a second and then somtimes it will rev up to about 2500-3000 rpm on its own the I shut it down and start it back up and starts idleing like that all over again and it flashes check engine. I am not sure how to test the soliniod by giving it 12v but does this still sound like a wastegate or do I have a engine mangament problem?

  10. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burton9010 View Post
    ...it will rev up and then back down back and forth about once a second and then sometimes it will rev up to about 2500-3000 rpm on its own...
    There was another post about this recently. Something about the engine RPM hunting or varying by itself.

    Look for posts by desperado, Kosh, Watcon (Randy), 4strokepolaristech, ph2ocraft, or one of the other Weber engine guys around here...

    Weber engine surging

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