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  1. #1
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Arrow Polaris 10-degree advanced 4010569 flywheel vs. regular 4010189 flywheel, CDI engines

    Quote Originally Posted by Keddano View Post
    Oh what we learned this last weekend.

    Long story short, Polaris changed flywheel for a short run (10* fast start), then made CDI's to match them, then went back to the older style flywheels, and had to re-program all the ones they made for the short run ones one at a time by hand.

    Did I state that right...?
    Man, trying to remember everything I learned this weekend...

    If I have this right, the Polaris 'High-Start' 4010569 flywheel has the woodruff keyway shifted during manufacture, providing 10 degrees more ignition base timing advance than the regular 4010189 flywheel.

    This provides 10 degrees more 'headroom' when programming aggressive timing advance curves into the CDI.

    The CDI that are matched to the 4010569 flywheels have the stock CDI timing curves retarded by 10 degrees, compared to a CDI meant for the regular 4010189 flywheel.

    If you use a 4010569 'High Start' flywheel with a CDI meant for the regular 4010189 flywheel, the ignition timing will be advanced 10 degrees more than normal, across the entire RPM range.

    Conversely, if you use a 4010189 flywheel with a CDI meant for the 4010569 flywheel, the effective ignition timing will be retarded by 10 degrees.

    Polaris ordered production CDI from PVL with the timing adjusted to match the 4010569 flywheel, for the various engine models.

    Apparently Polaris has planned to use the advanced timing flywheel on all production PWC engines, starting in 2002.

    After the 2002 CDI were produced (to match the new flywheel), Polaris decided they wanted to make use of the existing inventory of 'regular' flywheels, so for some models, the CDI were re-programmed by hand. These re-programmed CDI bear the hand written CDI part number.

    I suspect a similar story applies to the hand marked Update Ignition Kit CDI, which have a different part number marked by hand, reflecting a different ignition timing curve inside.

    4010569 'High start timing' flywheel was stock on these models/years
    2004 VIRAGE
    2004 FREEDOM
    2003 VIRAGE
    2003 FREEDOM
    2002 GENESIS
    2002 VIRAGE
    2002 VIRAGE TX
    2002 FREEDOM
    2002 OCTANE

    According to the Polaris Industries parts cross reference, only the 2003-2004 Octane used the old-style 4010189 flywheel after 2001. I suspect there may be other 2002-2004 models that also used the old 4010189 flywheel (and CDI programmed to match), but I don't have any info on that.

    Note that the Octane used both versions of the flywheel depending on the model year. This means that it is critical with the Octane to match the CDI timing with the flywheel timing when you are swapping parts around.

    4010189 'regular start timing' was the stock flywheel on all Gen III PVL ignitions from 1999-2001;
    2004 OCTANE
    2003 OCTANE
    2001 SLH
    2001 SLX
    2001 PRO 1200
    2001 GENESIS
    2001 VIRAGE
    2001 VIRAGE TX
    2000 SLH
    2000 SLX
    2000 PRO 1200
    2000 GENESIS
    2000 VIRAGE
    2000 VIRAGE TX
    1999 SLTX-B
    1999 GENESIS
    Last edited by K447; 10-24-2010 at 01:59 PM. Reason: Corrections and clarifcation


  2. #2
    PolarisNut's Avatar
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    Very good reason to ALWAYS verify ignition timing when replacing a flywheel or CDI! First I've ever heard of this...good info.

  3. #3
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    If you are building a custom engine from parts, or having a CDI custom programmed, be sure to check which flywheel version you are using.

    For CDI programming, the person programming the CDI needs to know if you are using the High-Start 4010569 flywheel.

    I suggest the CDI be marked to indicate that it is matched to the high-start flywheel

  4. #4
    SPEED KILLS, BUT YOU GET THERE QUICKER Keddano's Avatar
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    Maybe Randy can also share the difference on spotting the flywheels. When we discussed it Sunday,he asked if the screws holding the timing hub were Socket Head Cap Screws in recesses,or something else. I beleve the recessed ones are the standard style(non fast start)

  5. #5
    Rasta Mon Condoms We Be Jammin!!!!! TxVirageTx's Avatar
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    confused big time

    on both of my skis the flywheel has nothing to do with timing,there is a seperate adjustable timing base thats removable unless the went to a one piece design after 2000?

  6. #6
    PolarisNut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxPro1200 View Post
    on both of my skis the flywheel has nothing to do with timing,there is a seperate adjustable timing base thats removable unless the went to a one piece design after 2000?
    Wonder if they moved the slotted holes 10*?

  7. #7
    SPEED KILLS, BUT YOU GET THERE QUICKER Keddano's Avatar
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    That or the magnet positions.Which I guess is the same.

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolarisNut View Post
    Wonder if they moved the slotted holes 10*?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keddano View Post
    That or the magnet positions.Which I guess is the same.
    Or the woodruff key slot was shifted

  9. #9
    Rasta Mon Condoms We Be Jammin!!!!! TxVirageTx's Avatar
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    flywheel

    the flywheel doesn't do anything but charge and hold the timing base in a fixed position once its adjusted.i could see a cdi built so that when the rpms are at cranking speeds it advances the timing more to get it started and above 600 rpm's it drops the advanced timing back to a standard setup.longer timing slots are woodruff key repostions wouldn't affect what the timing is SET to at idle.unless from the factory the flywheel and timing base came together preset and advanced with a special cdi to compensate for that 10 degrees with special programing

  10. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxPro1200 View Post
    ...unless from the factory the flywheel and timing base came together preset and advanced with a special cdi to compensate for that 10 degrees with special programing
    That is close to my understanding.

    The 4010569 flywheel is factory configured to deliver 10 degrees more base timing than the old 4010189 flywheel. That means the Hall Effect sensors trigger the CDI 10 degrees sooner.

    The matching production CDI is programmed to retard the entire stock ignition curve by 10 degrees.

    The result is the same actual ignition timing as using the old flywheel with the old CDI.


    The only reason for Polaris bothering with the High-Start flywheel was to allow the possibility of more maximum timing advance than the old flywheel would allow.


    The CDI can not fire the spark before the Hall Effect sensor in the stator has triggered the timing event.

    When the Hall Effect sensor triggers, the CDI calculates how long to delay before actually firing the spark. Less delay before firing the spark equals more timing advance.

    If you wanted to custom program the CDI curve for the spark timing to spark before the Hall Effect signal happens, the CDI can not do it.

    With the High Start flywheel, a custom CDI timing programmer has another 10 degrees of possible timing advance to work with, if the engine needed it.

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