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  1. #1

    Talking Problems with newly rebuilt engine

    Hi Everyone! I have a problem with a 2003 GTI LE, 718 Rotax. I just had the engine rebuilt, and the first engine seized because of a lean condition, I found the internal filter in the carb was almost completely clogged with trash. rebuilt the carb after I got my new engine (no.2) and started on the hose. everything was fine. got it to the lake, let it idle for 10 minutes, then ran at 1/3rd throttle, up and down, did good for half an hour, let it set for 30 minutes. then ran for 2/3rd's throttle, up and down for about five minutes,then the engine stopped abruptly. I am running my ski at 32 to 1 fuel to oil ratio, smokes like crazy at idle, my carb settings are as follows: I set the low speed screw to 1 1/2 turns open, the high speed screw is at 1/8th turn open and the jets are bone stock, the one thing I did,that was recommended to me was to remove the internal filter, otherwise a stock carb. after I returned from the lake yesterday, I pulled the fuel selector switch off to make sure it wasn't blocked by crud in the fuel lines, blew the lines out with low pressure air, no obstructions, cleaned fuel strainer, nothing to block the fuel. I am perplexed at what could be causing this.......the ski starts right after it dies, but will only run for about five minutes before it shuts down again. Has anyone ever dealt with this problem in the past? am I doing something wrong in my break-in method? this is driving me stir crazy!!!


    Thanks in advance!!!
    Ben
    Last edited by Snipescastle2; 08-23-2009 at 08:42 AM. Reason: add


  2. #2
    dghal's Avatar
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    First thing to do is take the carbs back off and put the filter / 's back in,, you risk plugging tiney carb passages filterless,, You can always add a good marine quality inline filter between the tank and carbs,,

    When it dies,,,,,,, does it just shut off like turning off the key? does it bog down like running out of fuel,,

    what do the plugs look like? wet or dry.

    is it getting hot and the temp switch shutting it down? any alarm beeps?

    post back let us know

  3. #3

    Unhappy conditions as found:

    Quote Originally Posted by dghal View Post
    First thing to do is take the carbs back off and put the filter / 's back in,, you risk plugging tiney carb passages filterless,, You can always add a good marine quality inline filter between the tank and carbs,,

    When it dies,,,,,,, does it just shut off like turning off the key? does it bog down like running out of fuel,,

    what do the plugs look like? wet or dry.

    is it getting hot and the temp switch shutting it down? any alarm beeps?

    post back let us know
    the engine sort of sounds like it is bogging down hard then dies....but it stops right away, not slowly, not sure if this would be called a seizure, but sure sounds like it to me. there is one beep from the alarm if you try and start it right away after it stops. The plugs are dry, almost dark chocolate brown in color, almost black. I am at work right now, I can post pics later after I get home. I cleaned and blew out the hoses and strainer they are all clear of any debris. I also rebuilt the carb with a new kit. after the engine stops, it will start up after a few seconds. then run for another five minutes of so before it stops again.
    The original engine seized after my first trip to the lake, I sent the engine out for rebuilding, that engine ran great, got through almost all the break-in, and halfway through my second tank of gas,one of the magnets in the flywheel broke free and tore the stator out, damn the bad luck..... that engine was fine, or at least I thought it was, the shop that rebuilt it said it had some signs of seizure also. they then sent me a totally rebuilt engine, and here we are.... I'm going nuts over this, I'd like to have this thing fixed before labor day weekend, but it doesn't look good at all.

  4. #4
    KrunchovXPL-GTX-RX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snipescastle2 View Post
    the engine sort of sounds like it is bogging down hard then dies....but it stops right away, not slowly, not sure if this would be called a seizure, but sure sounds like it to me. there is one beep from the alarm if you try and start it right away after it stops. The plugs are dry, almost dark chocolate brown in color, almost black. I am at work right now, I can post pics later after I get home. I cleaned and blew out the hoses and strainer they are all clear of any debris. I also rebuilt the carb with a new kit. after the engine stops, it will start up after a few seconds. then run for another five minutes of so before it stops again.
    The original engine seized after my first trip to the lake, I sent the engine out for rebuilding, that engine ran great, got through almost all the break-in, and halfway through my second tank of gas,one of the magnets in the flywheel broke free and tore the stator out, damn the bad luck..... that engine was fine, or at least I thought it was, the shop that rebuilt it said it had some signs of seizure also. they then sent me a totally rebuilt engine, and here we are.... I'm going nuts over this, I'd like to have this thing fixed before labor day weekend, but it doesn't look good at all.
    Maybe, but I have seen MPEMs do the same thing. They work until they get hot again and shut down. The only way to tell will be to look at the pistons and see if it has siezed. If not, then the MPEM may have been damaged when the stator got chomped.

  5. #5

    Angry problems

    Okay folks, I'm ready to put up for the winter, seems the shop that built my engine says I'm having cold seizure issues stemming from a fuel delivery problem. I have cleaned the fuel lines, fuel selector valve, strainer, rebuilt the carb everything fuel wise except the tank. they are now saying I may have water in my tank, so now I have to drain the tank, inspect for water intrusion , re-fill with fresh gas/oil and see what happens. I made sure that I ran this engine way heavy on the oil side, and at idle, it smokes really good, took my time starting it, let it idle for ten minutes before touching the throttle, I have babied this thing the entire time I have owned it, I doubt I ever got beyond 20-mph the entire time I have owned it! I mentioned the possible MPEM problem to the tech who rebuilt the engine and he says they either work or they don't, maybe he hasn't had that situation before,I don't know. All I know is they are not going to cover the replacement costs of my top end now because I have a fuel problem that they say is causing my engine to sieze. rotten luck, had lot's of that lately. I sure hate to drop $2k into buying a new Bombardier engine only to have this happen again, a match and a fuel leak will cure my i'lls.......
    I will take the head off tonight and see if I have any scoring inside the cylinders to confirm I do have a seizure, but I am probably "dead in the water" until later this fall when I can afford to pursue a new engine. this really sucks....

  6. #6
    dghal's Avatar
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    Ok, While I am not a certified engine builder, I have blown up my share of 2 stroke racing engines,, Try racing a shifter kart for years you tend to learn about 2 stroke engines..

    "cold" seizure is just that,, Too much load and RPMs on a "cold" engine,, Sounds like you warmed it up plenty, What was the water temp? warm enough to swim in I figure,

    A "lean" seizure is associatted with fuel delivery.

    Yes there could be water in the tank/fuel is there any in the factory water seperator?

    You could be sucking air in the fuel selector, Have you zip tied all your fuel lines?

    You do realize that 32:1 with extra oil actually makes the motor LEAN on fuel,

    pulling the head you may not see seizure as easily as you would on the piston skirt.

    I would make sure the filters are back inside the carb/s and check your 2 check valves on the tank vents. one allows air in, and one allows air out if the tank pressurizes,,

    also make sure you are hooked up correctly on the tank sender,,, those markings are small and it is easy to put a line on the wrong spigot.

    Also pull the plugs ground the wires and do a compression check,, that will tell quicker on seizure than pulling a head.

    good luck

  7. #7

    Unhappy issues

    dghal,
    Good info to know, my ski's have both been converted to premix, the previous owners did this. One of them is awesome, no issues at all(knock on wood) the other, well that's why I am here. I am going to try a compression check and I have everything I need to empty the tank tonight, hopefully, I will see something, but I doubt it. I have cleaned and blown out all of the lines to and from the fuel tank, I have been careful to mark and label each one as I went along. I have read where the selector knob/valve was notorious for collecting junk, pulled and checked/cleaned that too, I am using all new stainless screw clamps -vs. oetiker clamps. I will check those check valves while I am at it tonight, I seem to remember having pressure on the tank after running, would this be a huge part of my problem?

    the water temp was 65 degrees maybe a bit warmer, certainly not hot. the filters are back in the carb,the one thing about my carb, I didn't have a pop off test pump, but I do have a hobby air compressor with a very good regulator and fine graduated guage (0 to 100) I managed to see the pop off read close to 35-40 psi just what the manual says it should be. guess we will see what happens tonight..
    Thanks for the info!
    Ben

  8. #8

    as found conditions

    Hello all! Seems my worst fears are right, after doing a compression check, the Mag cylinder had 110 PSI and the PTO cylinder had 115 PSI so I took the top end apart and here is what I have found: seizure for sure, I will probably get a new engine this winter while it's down. not sure I really want to drop $2k on a new Bombardier engine or even an SBT block. I'm tired of the headaches though. I have learned so much since May when I bought these, I'm hooked so I'll be digging in till I get this problem solved,
    I pumped out the tank tonight just to see if there was any water in there, and there wasn't. I am guessing the carb was the culprit, I will get the pop off tested to confirm the carb is working properly. One thing I have noted during normal operation is, oncei take the gas cap off, the tank is under pressure, is this normal? I know there are check valves and vent valves,would this contribute to my problem?
    Thanks,
    Ben
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  9. #9
    rob2337's Avatar
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    The piston wash looks like you're running rich.

    Just a suggestion, are you maybe overheating and the engine locking up? Clogged cooling line?

    When you try to start it after it dies, does the engine turn over or is it locked up? I have seen some engines full of sand in the cooling system.

  10. #10
    KrunchovXPL-GTX-RX's Avatar
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    I would have the cylinders and pistons checked for clearance, by another shop...

    I am not sure I would trust someone who tried to tell me that a cold seize was caused by a lean fuel system. They either do not know, or are tossing me some BS hoping I will pay up or go away.

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