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  1. #1

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    Throttle Position Specs on a 99 Polaris Genesis FICHT

    I am not sure if I need one or not..so I would like to find out the
    resistance numbers on the TPS on a 99 Polaris Genesis FICHT.

    2410183 is the part number of the TPS. I believe it is the same one as the Virage.

    Thanks in advance! I dont mind buying one anyway..I just want to know that mine is definately a problem.

    Basically the common..idles fine...give it gas..runs like a turd.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    The problem with trying to bench test the TPS is that engine vibration plays a role.

    On the bench it can ohm test just fine, but still work poorly on the engine.

    The TPS design has also been updated a few times, so the newer part numbers are more reliable.

    The original TPS is just a linear potentiometer, so the center pin is supposed to smoothly increase in resistance as the shaft turns away from one outside pin, and reduce resistance as it approaches the other outside pin.

    The newest TPS is an electronic device, and can not be tested with an ohm-meter. It outputs a variable DC voltage, as is powered by 5 volts from the EMM.

    Ficht TPS versions, sources
    1999-2001 non-pigtail TPS, 2002-2004 pigtail TPS versions are not interchangeable

    TPS electrical connector can cause problems, check, clean and tighten the metal pin sockets

  3. #3

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    I just dont want to spend money that wont make the problem go away.
    I cant find a manual, or specs anywhere.. It is almost time to store it, and just want to make sure its in tip top shape before I cover it up for the season.

    I'm around the Toronto area too..maybe I can swing by and you can have a look at her =)

    Mike

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vwmikey99 View Post
    I just don't want to spend money that wont make the problem go away...

    It is almost time to store it, and just want to make sure its in tip top shape before I cover it up for the season.

    I'm around the Toronto area too..maybe I can swing by and you can have a look at her =)

    Mike
    That might work

    Where exactly are you located?

    Best test is to simply put another good TPS on, and test ride it in the water. On the trailer without a water load, it can be hard to tell if everything is really working as it should.

    PM me, and we can see what might work, schedule-wise

    BTW, the 1999 Ficht Genesis has some reliability issues with the wiring harness itself, mostly due to poor sealing of the many splices/connections. Corrosion, especially among all the ground wire connections, can cause weird problems that can be hard to trace.

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Arrow How many problems can one Ficht ski have?

    I spent most of Saturday (about 11 hours) working with Mike on his 1999 Genesis i. And it is still not running properly

    Turns out it had way more troubles than just the TPS
    Engine has about 105 hours on it.
    Arrived in Canada with Texas bow numbers, which are still on the hull.

    Among the problems uncovered so far;
    - TPS harness connector pins were damaged/squashed, and not making proper contact to the TPS.

    - TPS wire harness had multiple wire cuts/splices, and every one was simply wire ends twisted together, then hidden inside electrical tape. No butt connectors, no solder, just twisted wire ends with tape - lots of tape.

    Had to cut out a section of the TPS harness, splice in new wires and a new three pin connector.

    - The original TPS arm was missing the plastic nub, so the TPS output was way out of range on the idle end (voltage way too low). TPS was held on by only one bolt

    - The lever on the throttle body that moves the TPS arm had been bent out of shape, so even with the correct TPS, the output was wrong. Re-bent the TB lever to bring the TPS voltage at idle position up to about 0.335 volts, or about 0.9%

    - Throttle cable had excess slack. Even after the slack was removed, maximum TPS output is only about 84%
    I don't yet know why the output doesn't reach 100%, and the throttle plates are now vertical against the stop at WOT thumb lever position

    Edit: Comparing the 1999 and 2000+ Ficht EMM info, it may be that the 1999 Ficht EMM is reporting the percentage of full TPS output, not the percentage of throttle position. The TPS' full range of rotation is greater than the throttle shaft range.


    - There is evidence of high heat, or possibly a small fire, around the top of the engine. All injector fuel lines had been replaced previously, with gear clamps everywhere.

    - The stock plastic Flame Arrestor cover had been replaced with a home made flat metal plate. FA mesh had a Pure Polaris parts sicker on the inside, suggesting the original part was damaged

    - The return fuel line tee into the CEN fuel injector was melted/burned, and somewhat deformed. Replaced with a good tee.

    - The black plastic convoluted sleeving in several places is melted or burned looking.

    - The Fuel injector wires were crispy and melted, as was one of the injector connectors. Replaced with new wires and connectors.

    - Ignition coil primary wire sleeving was melted, but the wires inside look OK.

    - The CPS sensor sleeving was melted, and the CPS wires were badly spliced (as was every other 'repair' connection we have found so far)

    - Even the heavy red battery positive cable had been toasted, then scraped down with a knife and wrapped with electrical tape.

    - The first exhaust hose loop from the manifold to water box had melted internally. There was a huge blister inside the hose that was greatly constricting exhaust flow. Outside of the hose felt soft and was a little deformed, but it was masked by the black mesh sleeving that was factory installed.

    Symptom was the engine would idle OK, but would bog and run poorly when throttle was applied.

    - Plastic mesh sleeving for the stator wire bundle is melted along much of its length, but the stator wires inside look OK

    - The EMM diagnostic loop wires are very dark, and even the White/Red wire looks dark brown. It doesn't clean off.

    - Lanyard switch is not Polaris original - not sure what it is from.

    - PERC Electric Reverse switch had the Green wire pinched/severed inside the housing on the handlebar. It has now been properly spliced.

    The previous 'tech' had solved the broken green wire by installing another toggle switch on the side of the cowling, and the rider was supposed to first toggle the cowling switch up or down, then press the Forward or Reverse button
    That extra switch was directly wired to battery positive - with no fuse

    Extra reverse switch is now removed, along with all the extra wires that were hacked into the reverse motor harness

    - Removed all the twisted wires and tape, repaired/re-spliced five of the six reverse harness wires.

    - Reverse motor doesn't want to run, decided it wasn't important, since the reverse cable at the motor end is also broken off.

    - Mike will be looking for a replacement reverse cable and possibly the motor assembly, or figuring out how to install a manual reverse lever on a Genesis.
    Anybody done that before?

    - The MFI that was on the ski is complete junk, with cracked face and lots of water inside. Plugged in my spare MFI for testing, and it works fine.

    - Found several tools and parts in the bottom of the hull, including a 1/4" square drive ratchet wrench, 8mm deep socket, SS washers, and a TPS bolt
    Also lots of gooey/sticky old 2-stroke oil

    - The installed battery is a size larger than stock, and for some reason it was completely flat (0.3 volts ) only a week after the ski had been last running (albeit very poorly).

    Had to take an exhaust hose out to get the battery out and put it on a charger. Surprisingly, the battery did recharge, and so far it has been able to crank and start the engine multiple times.

    - Original battery mount is missing, and a modified rubber strap is being used to hold the battery down.

    - Oil sender cap doesn't stay put, pops up easily. Might try adding an O-ring or two, as there aren't any there right now.

    - Oil level is borderline low, so the Low Oil warning comes and goes, making it harder to read the MFI. And I am out of 2-stroke oil

    - Oil sender's Black ground wire is spliced into a big yellow FUSE holder, than then runs all the way back to the EMM diagnostic port, where it connects with the diag loop connector ground pin. What is that about?

    - Bilge pump whines and rattles like it is getting old

    - Re-grounded MAG ignition coil

    - That is all I can remember right now...

    Found out later that Saturday was Mike's birthday, and he spent it bent over his problem child 1999 Genesis i

  6. #6
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    Symptoms and diagnostics

    After repairing the many wiring issues, and opening up the collapsed exhaust hose, the engine seemed to actually run OK on the trailer, for a few seconds at a time.

    It was fairly responsive to the throttle (for the first time since Mike got it), would rev to 6000+RPM, and idle reasonably smoothly at 1150RPM.

    Seemed good enough to hook up the garden hose, and let it run for a minute or so.

    After discovering the stock water bar doesn't have a usable location for a reverse flush connection, we rigged the hose directly to the cooling water inlet 3/4" hose, which we disconnected from the jet pump base.

    Started up, let it idle for a few seconds. Blip the throttle a few times, then the RPM just takes off by itself RPM rises to near redline, hit the Stop switch to stop engine.

    Try this again - idle, blip throttle a few times, then off it goes towards the 7200RPM redline.

    I am not sure if this is excess fuel or oil accumulated in the crank case, or something else.

    When the revs take off, the TPS voltage stays at the normal idle level, so the EMM knows the throttle is not being held open...

    If I engaged reverse (before we pulled the reverse motor out), then it will limit RPM to 3500, no matter how much I play with the throttle.

    Swapped in another 1999 Genesis EMM (40-pin side only), and the high revving still happens.

    Being a Ficht engine, crank case air leaks don't cause death revving. In fact, the stock Ficht throttle plates have big holes in them, from the factory. The engine gets plenty of air, all the time, in normal low RPM operation.

    Will be back at it tomorrow, might even water test it on the trailer.

    I wonder where I might find a Genesis exhaust hose on a Sunday...

  7. #7
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    Ouchhh....

    You have a good start on the project.. If I was there I would have went to AM-PM to get a soda, and never returned!!!

    I can only assist on a few items based on my limited knowledge..
    If a Weber TPS doent show a full range on the diagnostic screen, or shows a "spike" in the tps curve, I always replace it.

    The "fly by wire" has always had a revving problem (as you know), but this sounds like possibly the TPS is screwing up even though it shows okay on the diagnostics? If an injector is leaking, it would allow the rpm to rise, even with the throttle plates closed, as it takes only a SMALL amount of fuel to get a "free-rev" condition in an engine with no load..(holes in throttle plates)

    If the battery goes flat for an unknown reason check these;

    Bad starter (happens all the time).. People think their battery is bad, but its the friggen starter sucking all the juice out of the battery..
    Solution.. K447 style.. Use an ammeter to test cranking load.
    WCC style... Grab the red cable the goes to the starter,crankthe hell out of it and see if the wire gets warm..

    Voltage regulator is defective, and sends 12V directly to ground.. It will ofen just "bleed" some of the power, not just a direct short.

    Bad battery, even though you just bought it.. Often a battery will get a bad plate inside and will show 12V + on the charger, but the amprege is crap and will only start the ski a few times..

    If you attempt to "boost" it with another battery, battery charger, etc it will simply suck the power out of the charging unit.. That's why I always say to hook a Polaris to your car (not running), as it has a large enough capacity to overcome a screwed up battery.

    TIP.. When a normal carbureted engine "free-revs", the normal reaction is to pull the lanyard. When that doesn't work, somebody usually yanks the spark plug wires, and it still free-revs (see diesel engine theory). that when things get ugly...

    Solution.. Calmy walk over, yank the lanyard, then open the throttle fully. The extra fuel will immediately cool off the hot spots (carbon, etc) that is burning in the combustion chamber and the engine will stop immediately.

    *remember, these are just my opinions, and they might not work for you*

    Regards,
    Randy

  8. #8
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    Well, we spent another 8-ish hours standing over this machine today.

    Pulled the jet pump off so we could run it on the hose without time limit (garden hose fitted to cooling water inlet hose, not the water bar).

    Re-fitted the damaged exhaust hose after poking the internal bulges enough that it wasn't a huge restriction any more.

    This time we started it up, burped the throttle, and just let it rev. RPM hovered around 6800, with some up and down surging, but it wailed for a good minute or three (water hose running).

    After two or three sessions like that, the RPM began to sag, and it would drop almost to idle, the rev some, the drop. Did that for a while, then it dropped to idle, stumbled and stopped.

    My suspicion is that something like heavy oil was sitting in the crankcase, and was providing burnable mist/vapors when the RPM got above a threshold (about 3500RPM, best I could tell).

    The MAG and CEN spark plugs looked very black sooty, not wet. The PTO cylinder has lower compression (about 30PSI below the other two), and that plug looked less sooty.

    From then on, it would not rev freely. Squeeze the throttle, and the RPM would rise up to 3000+, then further throttle squeeze would cause the RPM to drop, and it sounded like it was bogging. At WOT, it was close to stalling.

    Release the throttle, and it would settle down to a half decent idle, right around 1150RPM.

    Grounded two spark plugs at a time, and started it on each cylinder in turn. It would run roughly, on any one cylinder, but the PTO cylinder seemed weaker.

    Changed the CPS sensor - no improvement.

    Swapped in three spare 1999 Ficht injectors, and it ran a little more roughly, but no stronger when trying to rev.

    Hmmm - just reviewing my notes here now, perhaps that exhaust hose re-collapsed after all that high-revving

    If it did, that could cause the poor throttle response!

    Mike - pull that exhaust hose off again, and jerry-rig something that won't collapse, or buy a good replacement hose.

    Decided to call it a day shortly afterwards.

    Not really happy with these results. Would have preferred to at least gotten to the water test on the trailer stage.

    Given all the electrical gremlins we uncovered in the wiring, it is possible there are even more yet to be found.

    This was the first time I have spent a lot of time around a Genesis hull. Very different from all the other Polaris hulls. Double layered fiberglass structure in the engine compartment looks very strong.

    The ride plate and intake grate are quite vee'ed and unique to the Genesis hull. I like the dual under hull exhaust outlet system, looks like it would be very quiet.

    I don't like all the exhaust hoses filling up the back of the engine compartment, and the 1999 EMM mounting is really poorly located.

    The grease nipple for the through-hull bearing is truly buried down there, and you literally can not see it at all, and can barely feel it with your fingers.

    The 1999 Genesis FFI service manual also forgets to mention many of the unique service items, so I have no idea how Polaris intended that grease fitting to be serviced.

  9. #9
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    11 5630997 fitting-exhst,btm hull,dfi,rh

    While hunting for used parts, I realized that the 1999 Genesis hull is rather unique.

    That is the only model year Genesis year with the dual hull bottom exhaust exits, and no PLANET tuned resonator system.

    Can anyone comment on how the 1999 Genesis sounds, compared to later years?

    Item 19 5630916 FITTING-EXHAUST,BOTM HULL,LH
    Item 11 5630997 FITTING-EXHST,BTM HULL,DFI,RH
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