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  1. #1
    way2fast's Avatar
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    Vietnam and Iraq..necessary ??

    Few if any of the members on this forum are old enough to hardly even remember the Vietnam War, much less to have participated in it. As someone who served in the military during Nam and who lost many good friends and buddies in that war, here is my opinion on it.

    Unless they died trying to save a buddies life, the US troops who gave their lives in Vietnam did so for nothing ! We got involved after an incident in the Bay of Tonkin where a PT boat from the north allegedly attacked one of our ships. (later proven to be a hoax) We went there to help prevent the North from taking over the South. About 14 years later and after more than 58,000 U.S. casualties, the North took over the South anyway.. Now, some 30 years later, North and South Vietnam are living in relative harmony. What did we gain from the war except for 58,000 names on a black granite wall in DC ? With 3-4 times that number permanently disabled Are we more or less free as a result of this war? HELL NO!!

    It's the phrase "they died for our freedom" that is so disheartening. If people repeat it enough, they can brainwash and convince themselves that those thousands of dead and crippled American military personnel were a just price to pay for our freedom, both then and now. This just isn't true !!

    Iraq is exactly like Vietnam in this regard. They were wars started under false pretext. In the end when our troops finally come home, I'm afraid that another granite wall will be constructed with nothing to show but pain, tears and sorrow. Some things ARE worth fighting and dying for, but Nam and Iraq were fights we didn't need to start.

    Richard


  2. #2
    Buaidh No Bas howestek's Avatar
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    Your right. If you lose, you gain nothing, or worse. Several million Cambodian's and Vietnamese (who were massacred after we pulled out) can attest to that.
    Iraq is still an open book on that count.

    Where did you serve?

  3. #3

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    I don't want to get into this for a number of reasons that are essentially very private, but let's just say that I am an American Citizen in Canada- Rent the Doc. "Why We Fight." There's your answer.

  4. #4
    HOSS's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Bro, Nam,,,isn`t Iraq,,,this is oil, money, power over long term.Nam,,,Bro,,Take my hat off. In fact drinkin a beeer for you now. Sorry, period!

    You know more about war than anybody her,,,I can atest to that. Ever heard of Paul Hardcastle? Its in the sig now when I get my new 12 thanks to people like you way2fast. Served in Nam? PHUC bro,,,you da man.

  5. #5
    HOSS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way2fast
    Few if any of the members on this forum are old enough to hardly even remember the Vietnam War, much less to have participated in it. As someone who served in the military during Nam and who lost many good friends and buddies in that war, here is my opinion on it.

    Unless they died trying to save a buddies life, the US troops who gave their lives in Vietnam did so for nothing ! We got involved after an incident in the Bay of Tonkin where a PT boat from the north allegedly attacked one of our ships. (later proven to be a hoax) We went there to help prevent the North from taking over the South. About 14 years later and after more than 58,000 U.S. casualties, the North took over the South anyway.. Now, some 30 years later, North and South Vietnam are living in relative harmony. What did we gain from the war except for 58,000 names on a black granite wall in DC ? With 3-4 times that number permanently disabled Are we more or less free as a result of this war? HELL NO!!

    It's the phrase "they died for our freedom" that is so disheartening. If people repeat it enough, they can brainwash and convince themselves that those thousands of dead and crippled American military personnel were a just price to pay for our freedom, both then and now. This just isn't true !!

    Iraq is exactly like Vietnam in this regard. They were wars started under false pretext. In the end when our troops finally come home, I'm afraid that another granite wall will be constructed with nothing to show but pain, tears and sorrow. Some things ARE worth fighting and dying for, but Nam and Iraq were fights we didn't need to start.

    Richard
    Ah bro,,,they ain`t in harmony and you of all know it. Don`t paint the target more than what it is. Red is fine but bright red is overkill.

  6. #6
    captain obvious Lurker's Avatar
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    Let me start by saying that I stand behind our troops 110%!!! I don't care where they go or why I'll support them.

    I'm 25 so no I didn't serve in nam or any other war, I didn't join up. Many in my family have and many friends have served. I respect them all for this.

    I don't agree with invading Iraq. Everyone says we are fighting for our freedom, and our boys are dieing for our freedom. Last time I checked they were in Iraq and other places dieing for others to be free who don't want to be free. I say f-em and f everyone who doesn't agree with our way of life. We need to get out of every place where the people don't want us, protect our borders from illegal activities and mind our own buisness. If we were attacked tomorrow we would be in a world of hurt because our resources are spread across the world (too thin) in places where we don't belong.

    I think many of the problems we have today stem from our frame of mind over the past 100 years.....the whole world must be a democracy. Let people live how they want to live. If a wife gets beat daily but refuses to press charges or leave the abuser, why should anyone step in? The abusee will always protect the one they love (the abuser) no war will change this fact or way of thinking.

    America (collectively) needs to change the way it participates in the world, stop forcing its ideals on people and let them live however they want, weather or not we agree as long as other peoples' way of life doesn't threaten ours we should stand on the sidelines. If we wern't trying to force democracy on the world for the last x number of years there wouldn't be osma, alkada (spelling?), hamas, ect.

    P.S. the spelling and grammer suck, and I rambled....it's late and I don't feel like correcting it .

  7. #7
    way2fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Lurker_
    Let me start by saying that I stand behind our troops 110%!!! I don't care where they go or why I'll support them.

    I'm 25 so no I didn't serve in nam or any other war, I didn't join up. Many in my family have and many friends have served. I respect them all for this.

    I don't agree with invading Iraq. Everyone says we are fighting for our freedom, and our boys are dieing for our freedom. Last time I checked they were in Iraq and other places dieing for others to be free who don't want to be free. I say f-em and f everyone who doesn't agree with our way of life. We need to get out of every place where the people don't want us, protect our borders from illegal activities and mind our own buisness. If we were attacked tomorrow we would be in a world of hurt because our resources are spread across the world (too thin) in places where we don't belong.

    I think many of the problems we have today stem from our frame of mind over the past 100 years.....the whole world must be a democracy. Let people live how they want to live. If a wife gets beat daily but refuses to press charges or leave the abuser, why should anyone step in? The abusee will always protect the one they love (the abuser) no war will change this fact or way of thinking.

    America (collectively) needs to change the way it participates in the world, stop forcing its ideals on people and let them live however they want, weather or not we agree as long as other peoples' way of life doesn't threaten ours we should stand on the sidelines. If we wern't trying to force democracy on the world for the last x number of years there wouldn't be osma, alkada (spelling?), hamas, ect.

    P.S. the spelling and grammer suck, and I rambled....it's late and I don't feel like correcting it .
    You get a standing ovation from me !!

    Richard

  8. #8
    way2fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howestek
    Your right. If you lose, you gain nothing, or worse. Several million Cambodian's and Vietnamese (who were massacred after we pulled out) can attest to that.
    Iraq is still an open book on that count.

    Where did you serve?

    On the USCG Cutter Halfmoon. I was one of the fortunate ones.

  9. #9
    DAGO RACING CREW 97GPSLEEPER's Avatar
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    way2fast, we have our disagreements, you even said I needed to get educated, made a joke in reference to my screen name, however, I have a newfound respect for you.

    I still disagree with many of your point of views, but, your service for our country can't be erased and your not just some punk liberal talking without reason.

    I get teared up all the time when I see a picture of young lives lost in this war. On the other hand, I get absolutley irate when I see some coward terrorist talking shit behind a mask or vale, making threats towards Americans and our interest. I absolutely would take pleasure in killing a terrorist with my bare hands, and when I get to thinking about these bastards, I have given thought to joining the military.

    Now, what kind of ski do you have, and just how fast are you?

  10. #10
    way2fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 97GPSLEEPER
    way2fast, we have our disagreements, you even said I needed to get educated, made a joke in reference to my screen name, however, I have a newfound respect for you.

    I still disagree with many of your point of views, but, your service for our country can't be erased and your not just some punk liberal talking without reason.

    I get teared up all the time when I see a picture of young lives lost in this war. On the other hand, I get absolutley irate when I see some coward terrorist talking shit behind a mask or vale, making threats towards Americans and our interest. I absolutely would take pleasure in killing a terrorist with my bare hands, and when I get to thinking about these bastards, I have given thought to joining the military.

    Now, what kind of ski do you have, and just how fast are you?

    Sleeper, I know where you are coming from. Believe me I'm just as much in favor for killing a terrorist with my bare hands as you are. My disagreement is in how we are going about rooting out the terrorists. I think we should have went after Bin Laden and company full throttle. If we did, they would have been brought to justice by now (another term for exterminated !!) Iran and North Korea have been much greater threats to our national security than Iraq ever was, even if Saddam's weapons of mass destruction turned out to be true. I just think we started our war on terrorists in the wrong place. The administration probably thought Iraq would be an easy victory, but instead it turned into a real drain on our manpower and fighting machinery. It's making us weaker when we need the strength to deal with Iran and North Korea. Argue as we do among ourselves...I'll bet just about 100% of us would fight for our country and stand up for our flag !!

    Almost forgot....the name "Way 2 Fast" comes from the name of an STV drag boat I owned. It ran in the 130mph range. As for skis, I was always a Kawi man, although I owned every make except Polaris. Back in 2003, I was telling guys on the Ultra150 forum and elsewhere, to wait until 2004 if they were considering purchasing a new ski...I had inside info on the RXP because I have friends with the company. Currently, I own 2 GTX's, a 1997 with 55 hours and a new 2006. My quickest ski in an Ultra that is slow by todays standards at 67mph. I'm waiting till 2007 for the new Kawi that is going to re-ignite the HP wars again !!

    Richard

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