01-14-2010, 10:27 PM #1
Cam Profiles for Kawasaki Watercraft Motors
Well its time to share and contribute to this community. New year and new info.
Recently I trusted in some to guide me in the correct direction pertaining to cams. I trusted them to be honest and I truly believed in them. I was shown different.
Let me be the first to say, I'm putting an end to it now with truthful and honest information. Doesn't matter what happened its behind me and should be for everyone else.
This is how Im going to fix my wrongs, giving a better insight for everyone to share.
Here is a complete run down of Stock Cam cards for every single OEM cam that fits in our Kawasaki Watercraft motors. Had them all spec-ed to include the ones I bought.
TeamMoto Kawasaki Cam Profile.doc
I opted to respectfully shade out the purchased cams. I own my cams and Webb owns the profile but its not my affair.
Don't pay 1250 or 1650 or 1850 for special cams, that is expensive and overpriced. Webb offers special grinds for $740. You send in your cams and gears and they do the rest. They even will go more radical specs and help with dialing them in. Not a plug just the source with the real prices. If your a dealer you get them even cheaper.
Ive checked around and several others offer the same thing for just under that. So buyer be wise, know what your asking for and what your paying for.
What this information provides is an insight to true cost and the real cam profiles.
So many are just buying cams and not sure of what they buying. "I was one of those people too".
So this is what I have learned so far.
For offshore application it is best to use the "15F,09,LX" specs, something we have been doing for some time now. It was easy in the day to just order the LX to drop into the 250 motor. Good for 1mph and improved mid range but not enough to cause a prop re pitch.
Well along cam 2009 260 and low in behold out comes only one profile for the 1500 motor. Trick over. You own a 250 and want better cams then just buy 09 cams and wallah your set.
Dropping back in time, back in the 15F SC days it was a common trick to take ZX12 cams and drop them into a 15F motor. Rough Idle but mid range performance improved alot. This didn't work some time ago as in 2007 the teeth profile in the JT1500 motor changed on the cams and the crank. No other cam gear was out at that time. Nothing was working until 2008 when Riva worked with Falicon to resolve the issue with hobbing new gears.
Some worked around the issue but at a cost of swapping or modifying stock gears.
To date it is thought that the ZX12 is going to be the best option and on paper it looks to be but what I'm not sure of is that all the ZX12 cam testing has been done on Centrifugal style boost, none have spoken of doing this on a stock charger 250/260 motor.
I ask, is the boost we are seeing going to have the same effect on the bottom end performance? I suspect the cams sold to me may suffer as my 0-3000 rpms is absolutely horrible, so bad that it is uncertain as to when the motor hits and pulls away. Making start line launching a bit difficult especially on the holders and forget about idling, its always want to shut off. Maybe an easy fix with adjusting the cam timing.
Remeber this is a information thread not a person attack platform. If I have said it wrong then correct it with contributing information that helps. This thread is not a personal attack, its not my intent, the past is the past and the best way to move forward is educating ourselfs.
Last edited by Skips313; 01-15-2010 at 10:33 PM.
01-14-2010, 11:02 PM #2
i have done alot of cam testing on the dyno and down at the water
i tell you what re shimming cams on the edge of the water is not fun...
if you are going to run the Lx style cams the best lobe seperation setting is 110 /110 hands down it will give you the best power the standard exhaust cam setting is far too retarded for tree hugging reasons and just does not
stock centers are 112/120 ??? working from memory some one correct me if i am wrong
all my testing has been done on vortech style blowers
and on the zx12r based cam
stock lobe centers are 105/105
i have tested pretty much every lobe centre imaginable
for the average rider on here you cant really go wrong with the stock lobe centere
below is a cam doctor print out that i have done of the stock zx12r
i also have some of the lx if people are interested ( but they are doctored at strange centerers as i was trying some thing.
Last edited by dawson; 01-17-2010 at 06:14 PM.
01-14-2010, 11:11 PM #3
Interesting, your ZX12 is shown at 0.050
All mine are at 0.020
What would the conversion be.
For Example from my ZX12 profile sheet. Stock Center 104 & 102
.010 268 322
.020 246 244
.040 228 224
.050 222 217
.080 206 200
.100 196 190
.150 172 166
.200 148 140
.250 116 108
.300 076 060
01-14-2010, 11:24 PM #4
jap motor cycle industry uses 40 thou - 1mm the us car industry uses 50 thou
of course some people just like to be different and you some how ended up with 20 thou
01-15-2010, 01:13 AM #5
cool thanks guys, do you have any information on cam setups for the NA skis? im still trying to figure out what i need to do for my 15f
01-15-2010, 08:33 AM #6
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
I may be misunderstanding, but I think Skips is refering to the opening closing events of the cam. the at 0.20 measurement is the so call real spec, where the at 0.50 is what they refer to is the "advertised" specand the spec used to degree cams in at. and the spec used at finding the true intake centerline as well as true zero on the cam a well which is what is needed to get the utmost out of the cam. yall might check out comp cams web site, there is some read good info there about cams and other valve train stuff... I worked for them a few years ago.
Certianly some great info there.
thats my 2cents
01-15-2010, 08:54 AM #7
I'm really exposing my ignorance on this so work with me.
On a roots style blower is the instant boost going to cause issue with added overlap.
Lets make a cam profile up out of imagination. Lets say I sent a set of cams to Kibblewhite to have a Cam Doctor ran on them. Met them at the PRI show and they was real willing to help out.
Lets just say an imaginary spec came back of:
In ---- Ex
7 Open 45
47 Close 9
Dur at .020 260 & 260
Centered at 115-114
Could this profile be too aggressive one a constant velocity blower. Maybe pushing to much air through the cylinder making a real rich bottom bottom and unstable idle for a direct drive proped motor? From what Ive learned so far and remember its all on my own so forgive me, would one want to spread, maybe advance the exhaust or retard the intake. Definitely spread away from each other.
I mean look at the stock 260 cams that have a Lobe Center spread of 10deg.
Can I slide the performance scale from "mid to top" to "bottom to mid" with a bigger spread, not like I'm getting much of a top end gain anyways?
01-15-2010, 10:20 AM #8
i wish someone would make a set of cams that would just bolt right in a 15f and give it say 20-25 more horsepower. seems like this wouldnt be very hard but im guessing the market just isnt there.
01-15-2010, 10:38 AM #9
I agree !! I would by them. or maybe a piston/ cam kit
01-15-2010, 11:59 AM #10
skip was just tlking theory not an actual cam, jmatak9 im actually working on that in my project, all the information i come up with I will post and let yall know, im not racing so i have no reason to hide it.
as far as the pistons go the only idea I have right now is to use stock 250x pistons with zx12r rods, the deck height on the 250x pistons are 5 mm taller and the rods are 6mm shorter, if the pistons skirts wouldnt hit you could have a really cheap way of dropping the compression on the 15f motor, raising it is another issue im still working out
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