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  1. #1

    Genesis i 2002 - 1st Cyldinder Not Firing Properly - Help Needed

    Hi,

    I have a Polaris Genesis i 2002 and have posted on here a few times with problems and I'm still stuck. It would be greatful if you could help me to get my Polaris running right.

    Previously my flywheel magnets feel apart and the TPS needed to be replaced although everything has been replaced and all is good. Although....

    Out of the water it runs fine, revs to 7k or whatever the speed limiter is set to. Although under load(running it on the water) it is as if one cylinder is not firing. Every now and then when going along the 1st cylinder (nearest to the back of the jetski) would cut in and the jetski would fly and run amazingly as it should. Most of the time is lacks power down low and revs to only 5500rpm.

    After running it for a few hours I checked the spark plugs and cyldiner 2 and 3's looked beuatiful although the first cylinder wass obviously not firing properly.

    I have suspicions that the coil is not working properly on this cylinder. Just wondering if anybody knows of a common problem for our skis.

    Thanks very much for your help
    (I'm from Australia and would love my ski going before the hot weather goes away)


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Welcome back

    When you replaced the flywheel, did you remove and visually check the stator coils for damage from the magnet shards?

    Note: Engine cylinders are numbered from the front of the hull. Cylinder 1 (MAG/magneto) is nearest the flywheel, cylinder 3 (PTO) is the rearmost. CEN/center is cylinder 2.

    When it is running poorly, do you see a red warning light or message on the MFI display?

    I suggest you build/buy (or have someone build for you) a Ficht Service Code Light
    Hook it up, and read the Service codes from the EMM. That might provide some clues as to what is going on.

    After you have recorded the stored codes, clear the stored codes. Then run the engine normally until the problem happens (which might be right away). Shut it down, hook the LED up, and read out the newly stored codes.

    While you are at it, you might want to do this;
    Improving the ignition coil grounding on 1165cc (1200) Ficht engines


    Polaris Ficht Fuel Injected Engines

    How to read Polaris Ficht EMM trouble codes without special software or a computer
    When the Check Engine message comes on, the EMM stores special codes into memory.
    You can read those codes, and find out what the EMM thinks may be the problem.


    Clearing EMM Service Codes using jumper or TPS cycling
    Note: the EMM may automatically clear old service codes after 15 running hours, if the same code has not re-occurred during that time.


    Have you ohm checked the Ficht stator coils?
    Unplug the 12 pin connector at the EMM, and check for moisture or corrosion on the pins. Check the stator coils using the ohm table in the manual.

    Measure resistance at the 12 pin connector on the following pairs of wires. This is what you should get for each. The pin numbers are listed right on the connector.

    Pins 1 & 12: 0.3-0.5 ohms
    Pins 2 & 11: 0.3-0.5 ohms
    Pins 3 & 10: 0.1-0.3 ohms
    Pins 4 & 9: 0.1-0.3 ohms
    Pins 5 & 8: 0.1-0.3 ohms

    Pins 6 & 7 should be empty.

    These are very low ohm values, so check carefully.
    Specification is 0.1 to 0.3 ohms per coil for the two battery charging coils, and 0.3 to 0.5 ohms for the three higher voltage injector power coils.

    Short your meter probes together, and make note of the fractional ohm value displayed. Your meter is reading low ohms inaccurately by that amount.

    Now subtract that number from all other low ohm measurements you make with the meter, to get an accurate measurement. If your meter shows 0.4 when the probes are shorted, then subtract 0.4 from all other low ohm measurements you make.

    Next confirm that there is very high resistance (very high ohms) between each of the stator coils and the motor ground. If any of the stator coils is shorted, or has less than near infinite ohms to ground, then the stator has a problem. Make sure your fingers are not touching the meter probes during this test.

    Next confirm that the coils are producing AC voltage. Remove the spark plugs to make cranking easier on the battery and starter motor. Switch the meter to AC volts, and check the voltage from each stator coil (pair of pins on the 12-pin connector) while cranking the engine. Per the manual, voltages should be 7volts AC, and 5volts AC.

    Sometimes, I have found that spraying electrical contact cleaner into each of the contact holes on the connectors, and onto the EMM pins, has cleaned a dirty electrical contact, and solved the problem.

    Clean both the 8 and 12 pin EMM connectors.

  3. #3
    Hi thanks for your response.

    When I replaced the flywheel the stator was visually fine, no damage and resistance was perfect on it.

    There are no engine check lights/red flashing lights on the MFI at all.

    I'll try your suggestions this afternoon and get back to you.

    Thanks

  4. #4

    Found the problem!

    I found the problem!

    The third cylinder's CDI ignition coil has failed as I tested it through spark gap loading.

    Now I just need to source one hopefully local so I can get it ASAP!

    Thanks

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoj19 View Post
    I found the problem!

    The third cylinder's CDI ignition coil has failed as I tested it through spark gap loading.

    Now I just need to source one hopefully local so I can get it ASAP!

    Thanks
    Bravo

    What exactly did you do to test the ignition coil(s)?

    Did you also read the EMM Service codes using the LED method?

  6. #6
    I didn't read the EMM codes as there are none at the moment but I think I should clear them all just in case using the TPS method.

    I tested each coil using an adjustable gap through air in a small tube and cranked the motor. All three coils sparked perfectly under a small gap (no load) although only two once pushed out to a further distance jumped the gap. The third was obviously failing.

    This explains while when idelling out of the water it runs fine, but under load in the water it never sparks. Unless you are going along straight for a while at a constant speed it sparks every now and then as it is under less load.

    Our CDI coils seem to be off Johnson Evinrude engines and are very common so getting one shouldn't be difficult. Is this correct?

    Thanks for your help, will let you know how it runs once I get the coil

  7. #7
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    BRP/Evinrude/OMC equivalent part numbers for Polaris Ficht ignition coils

    Quote Originally Posted by stoj19 View Post
    ...Our CDI coils seem to be off Johnson Evinrude engines and are very common so getting one shouldn't be difficult.

    Is this correct?...
    The Ficht ignition coils are in fact Polaris versions of BRP part numbers.

    1192cc MSX 140 Ficht EMM ignition coils
    Polaris 4010184 - BRP 586333 05K1A-BA Single coil pack
    Polaris 4010362 - BRP 583740 13K1B-BA Dual coil pack

    1165cc '1200 red engine' Ficht EMM Ignition coils (also 777cc '800' twin cylinder)
    Polaris 4010184 - BRP/OMC 586333 14HZ-OA Individual coils

    Tip: Make sure the ignition coil grounding is very clean and solid, on all three coils. And that the EMM harness ground wire on the MAG coil is clean, tight, and no corrosion.

    The Polaris 4010184 coil is $31 from Parts Pit Stop.
    Let us know how much the BRP version costs.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by K447; 02-05-2010 at 09:35 PM.

  8. #8
    So desperately I found a coil from an outboard boat supplier open on a late Sunday afternoon, so I paid a bit more for it ($30) and it was second hand. Although I didn't care as I really wanted to get the jetski out on the water...

    So I actually connected the new coil to the 2nd cylinder not the third and but the old coil (tested working fine from the 2nd Cylinder) onto the third just to see what would happen.

    It seemed to have more power than normal but still lacking that 3rd cylinder torque. At idle if you played with the throttle (pretty much mashing it from start to full throttle) you could get the thrid cyldiner and the whole engine working majestically. Haven't felt it go that fast in ages 60mph+

    But then as you are going along with maxed throttle it just randomly drops back on power to my dissapointment. After running it for about an hour like this hoping it would come good I took the spark plugs out.

    Again the first and second cylinder's spark plugs looked awesome! Was very pleased. Although the third cylinder was fouled up with fuel and was evident that it wasn't sparking at all/not properly.

    I'm destined to get this working right. I have checked the groundings they are very clean and solid I'll give the EMM harness ground wire a check.

    One more thing: When I replaced the flywheel I simply got the old one rebalanced minus the shrapnel of the magnets that were missing. So effectlively less than one magnet is missing which can't be good so I'll have to look into getting a second hand flywheel. Could it be that the 3rd injector is getting enough voltage all of the time?

    Thanks so much again!

  9. #9
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoj19 View Post
    ...One more thing: When I replaced the flywheel I simply got the old one rebalanced minus the shrapnel of the magnets that were missing.

    So effectively less than one magnet is missing which can't be good so I'll have to look into getting a second hand flywheel.

    Could it be that the 3rd injector is getting enough voltage all of the time?
    You might have mentioned that earlier on...

    Measure the injector voltage. Perhaps the voltage is borderline, or varying over time and RPM.

    All the injectors are powered by the same shared 45 volt DC power feed from the EMM on the White/Red wires.

    Have you checked the spark plug wires for damage or incorrect ohms?

    See if the EMM has any service codes to report. Clear the codes, try running it again, see if any codes re-appear.

    It is entirely possible you have several issues happening at the same time.

    You may well have an weak/intermittent stator and a damaged flywheel, and possibly a failing EMM module too.

    My guess is that you are going to end up installing a replacement stator and a good flywheel.

  10. #10
    Yes I rementioned it has I thought it could help my problem. Although if the voltage is shared then you would think that all three would be running incorrectly but 2 are running perfectly.

    Yes the spark plug wires have the correct resistance.

    The MFI is not displaying an error code and hasn't since I replaced the TPS.

    A failing EMM module scares me alot

    Could it possibly be the reed valve on the third cylinder? I'm going to check that out tonight.

    Thanks

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