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  1. #1
    commons71's Avatar
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    Polaris 2004 Freedom - oil-overheating

    I bought a used Polaris Freedom 2004 that I needed to replace one of the cylinders/pistons/rings - no compression. Other cylinder was fine. (I did replace the thermostat-didn't look good and worn pop-off - may have overheated with previous owner- don't know)

    It seemed to have an overheating issue and would go into RPM limit after 10 minutes in the water. After a lot of testing, (checked all cooling paths) it seems that the temp sensor was tripping at about 100 degrees (too early). I tested it in a pot of water and it consistly tripped just below 100 degrees

    I have replaced the sensor but have not tested in the water yet. (I will test that one to verify it trips at 160F)

    My question is what is the best way to verify the oil is getting mixed into the gas? Just wanted to verify this section as well before running it too much. It seems to run just fine before the RPM limit trip. (Run it for about 10 minutes - in the water - each test before tripping). It's not running rough or anything.

    So if it seems to run ok after cool down and prior to trip, is it likely that the oil is getting mixed?

    the plugs seem to have what would appear to be a gas oil mixture on them, but shouldn't they be totally dry or is this normal for the 2 stroke?

    Thanks in advance for you help.

    Commons71
    Last edited by commons71; 07-25-2011 at 05:49 PM.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Greenhulk forums
    Commons71 had previously PM'ed me, so I am including portions of my reply here, so it is all in one place.

    Tip: Update your Profile with your location and model info, so we can see who has what
    If your engine is not receiving sufficient oil in one or both cylinders, the pistons and rings would be the first things to fail, or have excessive wear. The crank bearings will last longer without oil than the cylinders and piston rings.

    Do you know what caused the failure of the cylinder you repaired?

    While you are diagnosing and confirming the correct operation of the oil injection system, you can also add oil to the fuel tank. This pre-mixing of 2-stroke oil into the gasoline will ensure the engine receives lubrication, even if the oil injections system has a problem.

    I would suggest a ratio of 50:1 oil in the fuel tank, simply to avoid excessive engine oiling if the regular oil system is actually working.

    Since you are breaking in a new cylinder, it requires some additional oil during break-in (50:1 is the recommendation from Polaris). Are you familiar with the recommended break-in process for these engines?

    There are a number of threads discussing engine break-in. The Search feature is very useful for this sort of information.

    Make sure the oil lines are all in good condition, with no cracking, leaks, etc. Since those hoses are now seven years old, you may want to simply replace them, just to be sure. Also replace the oil filter with a new Polaris filter, not generic.

    If you see any signs of dried oil or drips around any of the oil hose fittings, that indicates a leak.

    The Polaris oil pumps are actually quite reliable. The important thing is to make sure the hoses and clamps are actually in good condition, the filter is clean, and nothing is cracked, kinked, or incorrectly connected.

    And of course keep the oil tank filled

    Be sure you are running the correct spark plugs; NGK BPR8ES, gapped .024 - .028"

    Have you actually tested the temp sender while off the engine, and found it to switch at the wrong temperature? A good working temp sensor switches at about 160F.

    Normal engine operating temperature is just over 140F. If you can just hold your hand for a few seconds on the engine and exhaust without pain or skin damage, that is about right.

    If the engine really is overheating (you cannot touch the engine), then you need to investigate why. Often it is a clog, kink, incorrect routing, stuck thermostat/bypass, or other problem with the water hoses or fittings.

    Sometimes sand gets into the water jackets and creates cooling problems.

    ...If you remove the two small oil lines where they attach to the oil pump, and allow a small air bubble in, then re-attach, you can observe the air bubble move towards the engine.

    At idle and low RPM, the oil moves rather slowly. You can force the pump to full output by using your hand to swing the arm in the direction the throttle cable normally moves the arm. Just hold the oil pump arm in the 'full throttle' position to make the oil and bubbles move a little faster, even at idle RPM.

    Note: Do not run the engine for more than two minutes maximum when out of the water.

    When the hull is not floating, the drive shaft and jet pump seals are not cooled, and excessive 'dry' running will damage the seals, even if the engine itself is being cooled by your garden hose flow.

    Without cooling water, don't run the engine for more than 20-30 seconds.

    Tip: Reading threads from other owners can often illuminate the problem your own machine has, even if it is not exactly the same model. Polaris PWC share many parts and diagnostics across many models and model years.

    Another member has recently been working through his own overheat diagnosis => Hot SLTX

    Click the link in my signature for even more information

  3. #3
    commons71's Avatar
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    Now that the weather has warmed up, I decided to take the ski out and try to fix this overheating issue.

    As posted earlier, the temp sensor was reading incorrectly and was replaced with a new one (that doesn't trip early). I did the 50:1 oil mix in the tank and filled the tank full to break inthe new cylinder. So I did a water test this weekend and had the same result. RPM limit after about 10 minutes. At the dock I disconnected the cooling hoses and verified that water was flowing out past the thermostat. I even took off the cooling channel on the heads and verified that water was flowing freeling over both heads. This time I did the hand temp test and found that the entire engine was cool except the new cylinder. I could hold my hand on it for about 3-4 seconds. The other cylinder and the exhaust were nice and cool. This would lead me to think that the oil mixture has a problem, though I am puzzled because this ski has one carb and the second cylinder stays nice and cool. Also the ski runs fine and idles just fine when cooled down. I am leaning towards something is up with the intake manifold. But I have replaced the reed valves there and disn't see anything odd. the mixture seems to be getting to he pistons because the plugs are not totally oil free. Also the 50:1 mixture in the tank should be ok for lubing the piston/cyclinder correct? What else could cause just the one cylinder (which is new) to overheat. Another thing that seems odd is that exhaust seemed cool, but that is where the temp sensor is. What is shutting the ski down after that cylinder is getting hot?

    Any ideas?

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by commons71 View Post
    ...What else could cause just the one cylinder (which is new) to overheat.

    Another thing that seems odd is that exhaust seemed cool, but that is where the temp sensor is. What is shutting the ski down after that cylinder is getting hot?...
    Is it possible the cylinder head gasket is installed incorrectly, and limiting water flow?

    Or there may be sand in the cylinder or exhaust water jacket, preventing proper water flow to that cylinder...

    Before it overheats, what is the maximum sustained RPM you are seeing on the display?

    What exactly happens when it 'overheats'?
    Does the Engine just suddenly stop?
    Can you restart it immediately?

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Is it possible the cylinder head gasket is installed incorrectly, and limiting water flow?

    Or there may be sand in the cylinder or exhaust water jacket, preventing proper water flow to that cylinder...

    Before it overheats, what is the maximum sustained RPM you are seeing on the display?

    What exactly happens when it 'overheats'?
    Does the Engine just suddenly stop?
    Can you restart it immediately?

    Also, remove and clean the mesh screen and orifice for the exhaust water injection. There is a small hose that runs from one place on the exhaust pipe to another, all by itself.

    Remove the hose, unscrew the filter, and clean it. At the other end, poke a stiff wire into the orifice hole to make sure it is clear.

    Before you re-install the mesh filter, poke a stiff wire into the threaded opening and make sure there is no sand/mud or other clog hiding inside there.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #6
    commons71's Avatar
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    Yes. I have cleaned and checke the exhaust injector. All looks ok. When I took the cooling rail off the heads, the water flowed freely out over the heads on both cylinders - so I think the cooling lines are open and not an issue. I would also suspect that this would mean the head is not restricting flow as well.

    When running for about 10 minutes the ski just RMP limits - because it is Freedom, I don't know what the RPM's are - give it more throttle does nothing. It allows me to troll back to the dock. Doesn't want to idle well at that point. I let it cool down and it will start and idle just fine - until it heats up again. Just the front cylinder.

  7. #7
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Check the water manifold bar for internal clog or restriction.

  8. #8
    commons71's Avatar
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    Yes. The manifold seems ok and clear. I also disconnected the hose past the thermostat and ran it at the dock to make sure and had good flow there.

    Thanks,
    Clint

  9. #9
    commons71's Avatar
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    K447 -

    I do not see any oil leaks. I can't really do the bubble test on the oil lines because they are solid red. They look pretty new and in good shape. I have not yet changed the oil filter - that is next on my list. Do you think that would be a culpret - I hadn't suspected that because residue on the plugs seems to have a gas/oil mixture - but I guess if it is restricting the oil and screwing with the mixture it could affect it. But the second cylinder stays cool (coming off the same oil pump) in addition the 50:1 ratio was in the fuel tank this time. Baffling me. I may have to break down and take in to be diagnosed.

  10. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by commons71 View Post
    K447 -

    I do not see any oil leaks. I can't really do the bubble test on the oil lines because they are solid red. They look pretty new and in good shape. I have not yet changed the oil filter - that is next on my list. ... the second cylinder stays cool (coming off the same oil pump) in addition the 50:1 ratio was in the fuel tank this time...
    Which cylinder is getting hotter than the other, MAG or PTO?

    I highly doubt the cylinder heating is an oiling problem, since you have pre-mix in the fuel tank.

    You can swap the two oil lines, and see if it makes any difference. I doubt it will.

    If the water cooling in the hot cylinder is flowing correctly, and the compression is correct, then the only other thing it can be is ignition timing.

    You can check the timing using a timing light through the inspection port on top of the flywheel housing.

    Specification is 20 degrees BTDC at 3,000RPM (for CDI 4010803)
    If you need to mark the flywheel, that is 0.100" inches before BTDC (or 2.55mm)

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