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  1. #1
    '03 MSX140 Hymee's Avatar
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    Removing Driveshaft from Coupler - Newbie from Down Under

    Hi,

    I've had an '03 MSX140 since November, very nice ski, and well maintained. Until it dropped a rod or lunched a bearing on #1 cylinder @ 127hrs. Combustion chamber full of schwarf I'm used to seeing lying around in CNC mills! Shwarf if ferrous and copper/bronze colour, hence I'm thinking it is a rod as I have seen pics of them and they are bronze/gold looking. Anyway, I'll find that out once I get the motor out and tear it down.

    Just having a little problem getting the driveshaft out - making sense of the drawings and semi-detailed instructions in the otherwise good service manual.

    Is the tapered spacer what is holding the driveshaft together with the coupler? And the way to break the taper is by holding the rear coupler, and twisting the shaft from the spline at the back? That is the best I can make of it. Sort of makes sense, as in a bad situation (i.e a jam) the taper would brake instead rooting something else.

    Then comes the fun of analysing the failure so it doesn't happen again. I was hoping to get more than 25 hours on it. (It had 102 on it what I got it)

    Otherwise lots of fun. Had her up to 105 km/h on the speedo, so that was pretty good. I think that was a spike LOL! Put a works grate in as well. Jury is out on that one.

    Cheers,
    Hymee.
    Last edited by Hymee; 02-07-2010 at 07:07 AM. Reason: Missed a bit...


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Hulk

    Have you removed the jet pump already?
    If not, that has to come off before you can shift the drive shaft.

    The drive shaft will not come out with the pump, just slide the pump straight back after removing the four LONG bolts, along with the clips and clamps for steering, reverse, and the two small bilge siphon hoses. Do not remove any large nuts from the base of the jet pump.

    To remove the drive shaft itself, I believe you need to hold the rear half of the coupler with a chain style vice-grip, then unscrew the drive shaft from the coupler. Polaris sells a special driveshaft removal tool PW-46593 that fits over the drive shaft splines.

    As long as you don't damage the splines or the shaft surface where it slides through the seals, you might be able to find a way without using the special tool.

    Have a look at this thread;
    MSX Pump Assembly

    While you have it apart, now would be a good time to rebuild the MSX through-hull bearing carrier assembly.

    And consider replacing the bearings and seals inside the jet pump stator;
    Jet Pump Maintenance and Service

    Polaris Ficht Fuel Injected Engines

    Polaris PWC with fuel injected engines

    Click here for information related to the Ficht fuel injected 2-stroke models (1999-2004)
    Genesis i, Virage i and Virage TXi, MSX 140

  3. #3
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Once you have the engine out, let us know what you find.

    So far, it sounds like you will need the crank shaft rebuilt. Experience with crank rebuilding and a 25 ton press is required to disassemble and rebuild the crank with new bearings, and at least one new rod.

    The OEM cylinders are Nicasil plated. You can purchase another good cylinder, new or used, or have yours bored and replated.

    Some rebuilders will bore and sleeve the cylinder instead. I couldn't comment on whether that would be satisfactory.

    At least one new piston+rings will be needed, of course.

    The most common cause of engine failure is probably poor maintenance, especially if the engine was not fogged properly.

    If run in salt water, Polaris recommends fogging the engine after every ride. In fresh water, whenever the engine will sit unused for more than a week or so. Some owners fog after almost every ride, just to be sure.

    Without fogging, the steel bearings inside the engine are at risk of surface rust. Once even a thin film of surface rust has occurred, that is the beginning of the end for those roller bearings.

    Polaris PWC Parts Sources
    Polaris PWC Parts & Accessories

    Polaris PWC Repair Services
    Polaris PWC Repair Info

  4. #4
    '03 MSX140 Hymee's Avatar
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    K447,

    Thanks Mate! Yep, I have the jet pump out. Infact, I'm ready to lift the engine out, except the coupler needs undoing so I can slide the driveshaft back, and the only other thing is the line to the oil pump, but I'll wait till I get the engine up a bit so I have more room to reach in there.

    The stator/impeller assembly was stuck hard into the extension tube. I had to make a special puller to get it off, almost 1m long so I had enough room to tap it off with a hammer.

    The extension tube is also stuck hard to the pump housing. I don't plan on removing that (yuck!).

    I plan on overhauling the bearing carrier once out. The pump unit itself doesn't spin 100% smooth, so I guess I do the bearings in that as well. The impeller is quite nicked. Are the a-market / performance impellors any good on these skis'?

    OK, I'll get a spline socket, and a chain wrench or similar and try to un-screw the joint. Hopefully is RH

    So I might be able to get away with a front section rebuild of the crank along with a new piston and barrel. That might be good news. I saw full crank assy's for sale over your side for about $500. #2 and #3 look quite good just from pulling the heads off.

    I've been conscious of the fact I haven't fogged her. Makes sense about the rust, but surprising. I thought an oil line to the #1 TB might have been bocked. Will check it out as well. I felt a little comfort that I had been using the ski regularly (25 hrs in 2 months), but perhaps that is not good enough! Oh well, put that one down to experience. It won't happen again.

    Cheers,
    Hymee.

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Arrow MSX engine alignment using PW-46592 DriveShaft Alignment Coupler Tool

    Quote Originally Posted by Hymee View Post
    ...The stator/impeller assembly was stuck hard into the extension tube. I had to make a special puller to get it off, almost 1m long so I had enough room to tap it off with a hammer.

    The extension tube is also stuck hard to the pump housing. I don't plan on removing that (yuck!).

    I plan on overhauling the bearing carrier once out. The pump unit itself doesn't spin 100% smooth, so I guess I do the bearings in that as well. The impeller is quite nicked. Are the a-market / performance impellers any good on these skis'?

    OK, I'll get a spline socket, and a chain wrench or similar and try to un-screw the joint. Hopefully is RH

    So I might be able to get away with a front section rebuild of the crank along with a new piston and barrel. That might be good news. I saw full crank assy's for sale over your side for about $500. #2 and #3 look quite good just from pulling the heads off.

    I've been conscious of the fact I haven't fogged her. Makes sense about the rust, but surprising. I thought an oil line to the #1 TB might have been bocked. Will check it out as well. I felt a little comfort that I had been using the ski regularly (25 hrs in 2 months), but perhaps that is not good enough! Oh well, put that one down to experience. It won't happen again...
    Normally, we just use a long 2x4 section of wood and pry the entire pump body left-right until it loosens up, then work it straight back. Don't force it wildly out of line, just enough to work it free.

    With just the extension section still in there, the question is whether it got shifted or canted at all while you were working the stator section off. If the extension is not 100% squarely seated on the pump base, it will cause the rest of the pump to not properly align with the engine when you re-assemble.

    If you can get it off without damaging it, then you can clean up all the mating surfaces, and know it will be correct when you re-assemble. Be sure to apply anti-seize to each section joint

    The stock MSX 140 impeller isn't half-bad. There are aftermarket alternatives, but I don't have a specific recommendation for you. Others on here might

    Normally the entire crank is sent to a shop that is familiar with the Polaris cranks, and all the bearings are replaced at the same time.

    Since you have 120+ hours on that crank, and it appears at least one bearing has already failed, you might assume that the others are not that far behind. Given how much effort is involved in rebuilding the engine again if another bearing fails, the safe approach is to replace them all.

    When the engine lifts out, make note and keep track of how many shims (if any) are under each engine mount. When you put the engine back in, the shims need to go back where they came from.

    Even then, the engine may not settle into the exactly correct alignment with the jet pump. Mis-alignment can shorten pump bearing and through-hull bearing life, cause vibration, and also affect the rubber drive coupler wear.
    There is a special alignment tool (PN 2871343) for verifying that the engine is indeed aligned with the jet pump.

    However, on the MSX models it is complicated by the drive coupler you have, which is only used on the MSX models. Just be aware that the 'normal' alignment tool/process for all other Polaris models doesn't directly apply to the MSX.

    The MSX uses the PW-46592 DriveShaft Alignment Coupler Tool. Both halves of the normal drive coupler are removed, then the PW-46592 is threaded onto the PTO stub shaft.

    The MSX through-hull bearing assembly is removed and set aside while checking alignment.

    The stator is re-mounted onto the jet pump without the stub shaft or impeller, but with the new bearings installed into the stator. Then the rather long and very precise Polaris Alignment tool is greased and slides through the stator bearings, and should slide nicely into the coupler tool on the rear of the engine.
    Note: If that rubber dampener 'spider' from your coupler is compressed or worn, replace it with a new one.

    The following example is for a Polaris Virage, which doesn't have the unusual MSX drive coupler. However, the priciple is the same.
    How to check the jet pump to engine alignment using the alignment tool

  6. #6
    '03 MSX140 Hymee's Avatar
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    Thanks buddy.

    All makes a lot of sense. I got the motor out earlier. Bit of a mission, but in the end I was able to get it out without having to remove the bearing carrier and driveshaft. The alignment tool sounds like it might be necessary. I guess I could turn one up...

    Problem was inded #1 big end bearing. Gone. Your right about the others as well - should replace them as well. I could keep adding, but I guess at some point it will be better or more economical just to get a completely reconditioned short block on exchange.

    I should rename the thread It has gone a little OT since I first posted.

    I think one of the culprits might be something else I uncovered. There seemed to be a gritty deposit in the throttle body intakes. Worrying! I took a look at the air filter, it is a K&N style one. Problem was, it was completely dry. AAAARRGG!! Sounds now even more like I should do the whole motor, and impeller and pump bearings. At least the hull is in VGC.

    I've seen those type of couplers on supercharger drives. Takes a lot of the shock-loading out of the drive.

    I'll keep y'all up to date with progress if you like. Might even end up getting a short block from your side of the planet.

    Cheers,
    Hymee.

  7. #7
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hymee View Post
    ...I guess at some point it will be better or more economical just to get a completely reconditioned short block on exchange.

    I should rename the thread It has gone a little OT since I first posted.
    A moderator can do that for you

    ...There seemed to be a gritty deposit in the throttle body intakes. Worrying!
    I took a look at the air filter, it is a K&N style one. Problem was, it was completely dry.

    ...Might even end up getting a short block from your side of the planet...
    Status updates are always good

    Did you get in touch with Bernie yet?
    He might be able to suggest some Oz engine rebuild options.

    Are you sure the air intake flame arrestor is not the stock item?
    It is not an air filter, it is a flame arrestor. Metal weave mesh construction.

    Normally there is very little dust in the air when riding on water, so the main issue is preventing an engine backfire from igniting any fumes that may be in the hull. That is what the FA is there for.

    Of course, it needs to be clean. If it has a dirt accumulation, wash it thoroughly and let it dry.

    These Ficht engines need to run with the stock air intake system, as the fuel injection system will not compensate for increased air flow through the engine. It will simply inject the normal amount of fuel for that throttle level, even if it needs to be richer due to the improved air flow. So keep the stock flame arrestor in there.

    Note: There is a temperature sensor mounted through the bottom of the flame arrestor base plate. Make sure the top side rubber 'cap' of the sensor is not being cut by the plastic support web from the FA top section.

    You may need to trim the plastic webbing back so that it doesn't touch the sensor. I sealed up my own with a small dob of black silicone, after cleaning the oil film away.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by K447; 06-24-2012 at 10:02 AM.

  8. #8
    '03 MSX140 Hymee's Avatar
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    OK - my bad on the flame arrestor. Sounds like I was worring about nothing then on that front. Experience in car, noob to skis!

    I guess I'm trying to find a cause to my bearing failure, so hopefully I can do something about it as I would prefer to trust my engine and it would not let me down again.

    The #2 and #3 cylinder are very well oiled, so it obviously is not a oil pump problem, unless one of the lines is blocked. When I look at what is supposed to be the oil filter, it seems like a short length of hose/tube. What does a normal oil filter look like?

    I was using a "normal" TCW3 oil (as specified), so I have difficulty in thinking the oil is a problem.

    BTW, is Bernie an Aussie who frequents this place?

    Cheers,
    Hymee.

  9. #9
    urugol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hymee View Post
    OK - my bad on the flame arrestor. Sounds like I was worring about nothing then on that front. Experience in car, noob to skis!

    I guess I'm trying to find a cause to my bearing failure, so hopefully I can do something about it as I would prefer to trust my engine and it would not let me down again.

    The #2 and #3 cylinder are very well oiled, so it obviously is not a oil pump problem, unless one of the lines is blocked. When I look at what is supposed to be the oil filter, it seems like a short length of hose/tube. What does a normal oil filter look like?

    I was using a "normal" TCW3 oil (as specified), so I have difficulty in thinking the oil is a problem.

    BTW, is Bernie an Aussie who frequents this place?

    Cheers,
    Hymee.
    G'day from a fellow Aussie. I also made the mistake of confusing the flame arrestor for a pod filter! It makes sense though, you probably wouldn't get many dust storms out in the water.

    I don't believe you have an oil filter on the 2 stroke, you maybe looking at the fuel/water separator? These pumps are quite reliable, I'm not sure on yours but it is probably mechanical, the pump is connected to the throttle line itself.

    You can try Polaris gold coast for spares (i think they are known as jet ski world now). They probably know polaris better than anyone in australia but they do charge like a wounded bull.

  10. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hymee View Post
    ...I guess I'm trying to find a cause to my bearing failure, so hopefully I can do something about it as I would prefer to trust my engine and it would not let me down again.

    The #2 and #3 cylinder are very well oiled, so it obviously is not a oil pump problem, unless one of the lines is blocked. When I look at what is supposed to be the oil filter, it seems like a short length of hose/tube. What does a normal oil filter look like?

    I was using a "normal" TCW3 oil (as specified), so I have difficulty in thinking the oil is a problem.

    BTW, is Bernie an Aussie who frequents this place?

    Cheers,
    Hymee.
    Bernie

    Normally an oiling failure would kill the cylinder and rings before the bearings.

    You can check the oil injection ports to verify they flow oil, but I suspect you will not find a problem. They need several PSI to overcome the built-in check valves inside the oil line nipples before oil will flow.

    What exactly failed in the engine, bearings only, or also cylinder wall or piston ring damage?
    How about some photos?

    Oil filter, post a photo. It is probably OEM, but doesn't hurt to confirm.

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