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Thread: Engine shut off

  1. #1
    downunder123
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    Engine shut off

    My Genesis I has recently started to shut down when gets hot. When I ride it hard it just suddenly cuts off and it won't immediately start again (it does turn over but wouldn't start).There are no warning indications on the speedo and all seem normal (electrical). After 5-10 min would start again (normally would take 2 goes) and continue riding like nothing happened! Has anybody had any experiences like this? Thanx.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Could this be another electrical gremlin?
    Seems you have had some issues with this machine;
    Electrical Problem Genesis I 2001 FICH

    You need to figure out if the EMM itself has a problem, or something is telling the EMM to shut the engine down...

    You say the problem happens when you 'ride it hard'. What do you mean by that? Rough water bouncing, or just sustained high engine RPM?

    When it shuts down, does the MFI display stay normal, or does it go blank?

    When you crank it after it shuts down by itself, does the MFI display 'wake up', and show the cranking RPM?

    After sitting more than five minutes (MFI go-to-sleep timer expires), does the MFI then wake up when you crank, even though the engine won't start?

    Have you checked the water cooling through the EMM?
    If the small water hoses are kinked, clogged, or not hooked up correctly, the EMM itself can overheat. There may not be any warning on the MFI display; the EMM simply stops working when it gets too hot.

    Check the EMM for stored trouble codes;
    How to read Polaris Ficht EMM trouble codes without special software or a computer
    When the Check Engine message comes on, the EMM stores special codes into memory.
    You can read those codes, and find out what the EMM thinks may be the problem.

    Clearing EMM Service Codes using jumper or TPS cycling
    Note: the EMM may automatically clear old service codes after 15 running hours, if the same code has not re-occurred during that time.

  3. #3
    downunder123
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    Hi
    By riding hard I mean sustained high RPM (8kmh or 5mph with with near full throttle!)
    I don’t think I ve got the electrical problem (the corroded circuit breakers were giving me the problem last time) .The MFI stays normal at all times and it does wake up when I crank. After five minutes or longer, when I crank the MFI reboots as usual and displays all segments. I have checked the cooling hose to EMM and no kinks. I have disconnected it from the top of EMM and was able to pour water into EMM which drained OK at the back of ski…..I have also blown air back into the same hose towards the magnet and heard gargling. All seems good to me for that matter.
    Now I have managed to make the little LED and read the codes from the EMM as K suggested. The codes retrieved are in following order:

    46- Barometric pressure sensor above expected range
    44 – Barometric sensor malfunction
    17 – Alternator voltage below expected range
    41- Coolant temp sensor malfunction
    43- COOLANT TEMP SENSOR ABOVE EXPECTED RANGE (hard code this one, should put the ski in SLOW mode but doesn’t really????)

    I can do much about the barometric sensor but have measured OK the water coolant sensor (1005 ohms!).What I didn’t manage to do is to clear the codes in EMM. I have followed K’s instructions and 1999 manual steps but didn’t work using jumper on TPS connector. When disconnect the jumper (tether cord in) for 5 sec and then reconnect, the LED stays on regardless of the jumper on TPS. If I first disconnect the tether cord with jumper removed and then push the tether cord in, I can turn the LED on and off for 5 times by shorting the TPS connector. That doesn’t make any difference as if I reinstall the diagnostic mode again, all the codes read again…………..Removing the TPS and turning it off and on would I thing give me the same result I think.
    Could the alternator be faulty and cut the engine off? Wouldn't that kill MFI as well? Why the ski isn't in SLOW mode when code 43 was active at some stage?
    Thanx.
    Cheers

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bspanovic View Post
    Hi
    By riding hard I mean sustained high RPM (8kmh or 5mph with with near full throttle!)

    ..The MFI stays normal at all times and it does wake up when I crank. After five minutes or longer, when I crank the MFI reboots as usual and displays all segments...

    ..make the little LED and read the codes from the EMM...
    The codes retrieved are in following order:


    46- Barometric pressure sensor above expected range
    44 – Barometric sensor malfunction
    17 – Alternator voltage below expected range
    41- Coolant temp sensor malfunction
    43- COOLANT TEMP SENSOR ABOVE EXPECTED RANGE (hard code this one, should put the ski in SLOW mode but doesn’t really????)

    I can't do much about the barometric sensor but have measured OK the water coolant sensor (1005 ohms!).

    What I didn’t manage to do is to clear the codes in EMM. ... didn’t work using jumper on TPS connector.

    ...Removing the TPS and turning it off and on would ... give me the same result I think.


    Could the alternator be faulty and cut the engine off?
    Wouldn't that kill MFI as well?
    Why the ski isn't in SLOW mode when code 43 was active at some stage?
    ...
    I suspect you meant 80kph or 50mph

    BTW, what is the maximum sustained RPM you are seeing at WOT? Should be right around 6800RPM, give or take.

    The MFI is powered directly from the 12 volt battery bus (Red/White or Red/Purple wires), while the EMM itself and the Ficht injection system is powered by separate stator coils, and runs from the 45 volt White/Red bus

    Use the TPS method to reset the EMM codes. You will need to remove the TPS from the throttle body, but it only takes a minute to do so. Just make sure you put the coiled spring back where it came from when you re-mount the TPS.

    The barometer codes are a surprise. The EMM stores old codes for quite a while, so it will be interesting to see what happens when you clear the codes, then run it again.

    Check the Temp sensor wiring all the way from the sensor back to the EMM. Look for any signs of wire rubbing, shorts, stretched, or corrosion. Check inside the temp sensor connector itself.

  5. #5
    downunder123
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    Hi
    I normally ride about 40km distance @ about plus-minus 80kmh . The RPM gets to up around 7000 revs, no problems there. I will try removing TPS and clearing the EMM codes but I can read that other people also didn't have luck with that........
    As for the water sensor, to check the wiring to the EMM I would need to remove the 40 pin connector from EMM itself. If I had strong indications that problem is at that end I would give it a go but it seems to me that the wiring is ok (real pain removing that Deutch D40 connector). If anything I suspect that the little sensor changes its resistance under increased T and triggering the EMM fault log.......I will try to apply some heat and then again measure the R. How can I get to the water sensor? It seems that is inside exaust and hard to get to?
    Also how can I check the alternator as there is a code showing low voltage?
    After all I think that reason for engine cut off when hot is rather related to something basis, like bad petrol (problems related to the same batch of petrol) or like that. And also, after few minutes when it starts it runs for short time then dies again. After that stars immediately and runs OK. It seems to me like it needs to blow out the "bad breath"................
    Cheers.

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    I think the Genesis water temp sensor on the exhaust pipe is held in by a single small bolt.

    You can remove it and test it an a pot of water on the stove

    Photo is an MSX 140 exhaust with the Temp sensor visible.

    You can check for low voltage on the 45 colt White/Red wires using a regular voltmeter.
    Have a look here;
    Polaris Ficht Fuel Injected Engines

    It is not unusual for the low voltage fault code to appear.
    Sometimes there really is a problem, sometimes there was just a momentary voltage droop because the engine RPM dropped very low.

    Old codes are not automatically cleared until at least 15 running hours with no recurrence of that code.
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  7. #7
    Bernie's Avatar
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    Don't discount the stator .

    Bernie

  8. #8
    downunder123
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    I was thinking about the stator as a possible reason but I wouldn't think that is heat affected .....if heat got to do anything with that! While ridinig it always reads above 14V on MFI. Still haven't managed to clear those codes.

  9. #9
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bspanovic View Post
    I was thinking about the stator as a possible reason but I wouldn't think that is heat affected .....if heat got to do anything with that!

    While riding it always reads above 14V on MFI.

    Still haven't managed to clear those codes.
    Heat and vibration can affect the high voltage section of the stator without affecting the battery charge system. The 14 volts on the MFI doesn't relate to the 45 volt system at all.

    The EMM and injectors depend on a reliable supply of 45 volt power, which comes from separate coils in the stator, and runs through a separate section of the EMM power regulator.

    The EMM code clearing does work. You must do the process precisely as described. It often takes me two or three attempts to get it.

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