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  1. #1
    PWC Addict lilman573's Avatar
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    Red face New to the boards... 2002 Virage i issues

    Hi everyone! Just wanted to start a thread so that I can bounce as much as possible off of you guys. I have been a long time reader of these forums since my grandfather got his skiis in 2002. My grandparents barely ride, but I am the designated mechanic for both skiis. I don't mind it because i use them a lot and love the hell out of them.

    We got the Polaris new in 2002, but it has been really nothing but problems. Although I love the ski, it is on it's second motor ( the oil pump failed and the motor seized after ONE season of use!!!) and it didn't even make it into the water last season because of the current issues it has. Lets start from the beginning....

    The last season of use, it would have some problems starting. I couldn't take my hand off the throttle until it was warmed up or it would stall out. It would also never reach top speed. Then when we took it out of the water to winterize ( These are in the water on ride up docks all season) the starter solenoid went up in smoke. My grandfather brought it to a small garage mechanic and he replaced the solenoid but said the pump was seized (Took the whole assembly off the back and ripped some of the gel coat off with it ) Then he said there was an exhaust leak that was spraying everywhere and that the fuel injectors may be having problems because he couldn't keep it running and so on and so on. He said it would be about 2000 dollars and that was without him troubleshooting the fuel injection. I told him to pack it all up and I would be by to pick it up.

    Which brings me to my thread. I decided to start at the pump assembly, so I took it apart and found that salt water had made it into just about everything you could imagine... the bearings had burn marks, dried salt so think i needed a razor to get it off, etc. Not a doubt in my mind why it was frozen.


    I have cleaned everything off, and have purchased the jetpump rebuild kit from SBT. Now my questions is, i want to give all the housings a nice shot of black paint. What kind would i use? I think a nice marine flat black would look good. Could i just get this at a West Marine type place?

    Also, the wear ring is kind of funky too. It has two bulges that take away from the roundness. Some of the aluminum has also decayed, not to the point where i don't think it is structural but.. Now that i have cleaned off the ring, it doesn't really rub at all, but i am wondering if i need to get a new ring. I didn't think they had stainless inserts, but i could swear that is what this one looks like!!! Here are a few pictures to show you what i see I have since cleaned it up alot more and that dark mark is gone.



    Thanks for everyone's help, and sorry to have such a long post right off the bat, but I am in this for the complete project, and want to give as much info as possible. I take lots of pictures throughout the process so if you don't see something let me know.

    I also can't wait to have to troubleshoot the ficht...!!! Anyone have the diagnostic software for my latptop???

    -John
    Last edited by lilman573; 09-16-2010 at 12:42 PM.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum

    A rather well done first post, I must say
    If you have not found it yet, be sure to click this link.

    When the jet pump was removed from the hull (by you or the mechanic), was the base of the pump left in place, sealed to the hull? The pump base is held on by nuts, not long bolts, and normally never needs to be removed.

    If the base was removed, then it must be thoroughly sealed to the hull when re-installed, and precisely located in place.

    Regarding corrosion, in addition to new bearings and seals for the jet pump stator, you should also rebuild the through-hull bearing with new seals.

    Also check very carefully the stator tail cone. Sometimes the plastic cone can develop hairline cracks that allow water into the rear stator bearing.

    There is also a large O-ring inside the stator hub that is the actual seal for the cone into the stator. Make sure it is in good shape, or even better, replace it with a new one. Lightly grease the O-ring with waterproof grease when you re-assemble

    Some aluminum Polaris wear rings (also known as pump extensions) do have a SS sleeve inside. There are also some that are solid SS.

    If you are worried about the wear ring distortion, you can purchase a good used one. Once the salt water has started bulging under the liner it will continue to do so, since I expect you will continue to ride it in salt water.

    Note: Salt water is hard on a PWC. Even stored on a floating dock, the salt and moisture are still present. If you can, a thorough rinsing with fresh water will slow down the corrosion.

    Flushing the engine cooling system with fresh water after every ride would be good. A product like Salt-Away might also provide some benefit.

    I just bought a Polaris PWC - what should I do?

    Keeping your Polaris PWC on the water

    Jet Pump Maintenance and Service

    Polaris Domestic (red) engine

    Polaris Ficht Fuel Injected Engines

    How do I install the replacement stator bearings and seals?
    The only 'trick' is to freeze the bearings in your home freezer, and warm the stator (200F oven works well), which makes it much easier to get the new bearings to seat properly.
    When properly assembled, the spacer between the bearings does not press against the bearing races, it just nicely fits in there with no end-to-end slop.
    Stub shaft O-ring locations

  3. #3
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilman573 View Post
    ...We got the Polaris new in 2002, but it has been really nothing but problems.

    Although I love the ski, it is on it's second motor ( the oil pump failed and the motor seized after ONE season of use!!!) and it didn't even make it into the water last season because of the current issues it has. Lets start from the beginning....

    The last season of use, it would have some problems starting. I couldn't take my hand off the throttle until it was warmed up or it would stall out. It would also never reach top speed.

    ... the starter solenoid went up in smoke. My grandfather brought it to a small garage mechanic and he replaced the solenoid

    ...he said there was an exhaust leak that was spraying everywhere and that the fuel injectors may be having problems because he couldn't keep it running and so on and so on. ...

    I also can't wait to have to troubleshoot the Ficht...
    Are both your PWC 2002 Polaris Virage i models?

    How many running hours does the rebuilt/replacement engine have?

    Is it a Polaris replacement engine, an SBT rebuild, or rebuilt by someone else?

    The original black body starter solenoids are known to fail. It should have been replaced with the newer design brown body solenoid, which is more reliable. If the other ski still has the black solenoid, replace it with a new one

    Exhaust leak - the two cylinder fuel injected Polaris engines have a small water injection solenoid valve (Item 13 in the diagram). They are known to fail. Remove it, and cap off the water fittings. Discard the valve.

    BTW, you can find part numbers and diagrams on the Polaris Industries Parts cross referencing system

    Remove and check the main exhaust water injection orifice and mesh screen (items 8 and 9 in diagram).

    Also remove and check the thermostat and by-pass plunger (items 27 & 31, located inside the housing 30).

    If you find evidence of heavy salt accumulation or corrosion in the thermostat, then the insides of the engine and exhaust manifold water jackets may also have build-up. You can leave it be, or you can try to flush it out.

    Any other water or exhaust leaks can usually be found by running it in the water with the seat off.

    Tip: If you have access to a trailer, you can strap the PWC down front and rear, back the trailer into the water until the jet pump intake is submerged, and run it while on the trailer with the seat off. Makes it easier to see what is going on inside when it is held firmly in place while running.

    Ficht engine diagnostics - Almost all diagnostics can be done using simple tests, observation, and an understanding of how the system works.

    Difficulty running until warmed up - Sometimes this is caused by a failing TPS (Throttle Position Sensor). They are subject to engine vibration, and can fail over time.

    If you have another Ficht engined Polaris, you may be able to borrow the TPS from it to test on the problem machine.

    My suggestion is to purchase a new TPS. Even if your current TPS is good, it doesn't hurt to have one on hand as a spare. The TPS cannot be bench tested, and the quickest way to check for a TPS problem is to replace it with a known good TPS.

    TPS electrical connector can cause problems, check, clean and tighten the metal pin sockets

    Not reaching top speed could also be a TPS problem, or something else.

    Take care of the exhaust leak, work through the diagnostics mentioned, and lets see where it leads us

    You can make yourself a code reading LED tool;
    How to read Polaris Ficht EMM trouble codes without special software or a computer
    You can read those codes, and find out what the EMM thinks may be the problem.
    Clearing EMM Service Codes using jumper or TPS cycling
    Note: the EMM may automatically clear old service codes after 15 running hours, if the same code has not re-occurred during that time.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #4
    PWC Addict lilman573's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Are both your PWC 2002 Polaris Virage i models?
    No, although i know it would be easier if it they were. The other is a 1995 Seadoo XP.

    How many running hours does the rebuilt/replacement engine have?
    The new motor probably has 4-5 seasons on it. I would estimate it at 70+ hours. That may be on the high side, but just to be safe. I am really the only one who rides them more than once or twice a season.
    Is it a Polaris replacement engine, an SBT rebuild, or rebuilt by someone else?
    Polaris replacement engine.

    Also check very carefully the stator tail cone. Sometimes the plastic cone can develop hairline cracks that allow water into the rear stator bearing.
    There is also a large O-ring inside the stator hub that is the actual seal for the cone into the stator. Make sure it is in good shape, or even better, replace it with a new one. Lightly grease the O-ring with waterproof grease when you re-assemble
    Already bought 3 tubes of marine grease to get all this done! And the o-rings are all included in the SBT jetpump rebuild kit. It is a pretty comprehensive kit!! I will double check, but i am pretty sure the stator cone is fine. What it looked like was the gasket failed, and the allen screws were a little loose.

    The original black body starter solenoids are known to fail. It should have been replaced with the newer design brown body solenoid, which is more reliable. If the other ski still has the black solenoid, replace it with a new one
    The new solenoid is brown~! one thing that backyard mechanic did right!


    Exhaust leak - the two cylinder fuel injected Polaris engines have a small water injection solenoid valve (Item 13 in the diagram). They are known to fail. Remove it, and cap off the water fittings. Discard the valve.
    Will look at this when i get it in the garage. I am aiming to rebuild the pump, the when i put it back on start to diagnose the fuel injection problems.

    BTW, you can find part numbers and diagrams on the Polaris Industries Parts cross referencing system



    When the jet pump was removed from the hull (by you or the mechanic), was the base of the pump left in place, sealed to the hull? The pump base is held on by nuts, not long bolts, and normally never needs to be removed.
    This made me pretty angry. The mechanic didn't want to take the 4 long bolts out... so he pried the pump base off. I know this is going to be a horse to get back on correctly.

    I am hoping the inside of the motor should be "relatively" salt free, at least i am hoping. We flush it out after every use with fresh water.

    Wow!!! Thanks for the great responses! Good thing i started in the winter. All this work could take months!!!

    Should I even bother throwing some paint on the pump housings? I thought if it was all apart, i might as well!!!

    Edit: Just found outdrive paint on west marine's website. That should work...

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilman573 View Post
    ...The mechanic didn't want to take the 4 long bolts out... so he pried the pump base off.
    I know this is going to be a horse to get back on correctly.


    Should I even bother throwing some paint on the pump housings? I thought if it was all apart, i might as well!!!

    Edit: Just found outdrive paint on west marine's website. That should work...
    You can paint the outside of the pump extension. The stator should be stainless steel, so all it may need is some polishing. I suppose you could paint it too.

    Do not paint the mating surfaces when the sections join together, and do not paint the inside of the pump sections, where the water flows through.

    There is a sacrificial anode 'puck' on the pump base. Inspect it, or just install a new one from Polaris. Shouldn't be expensive. The anode bolt needs to be clean, and absolutely must provide a tight metal to metal contact between the bolt, the anode, and the pump metal.

    If the bolt is stuck, use some corrosion penetrant, plenty of soak time, and perhaps the occasional hammer whack to work the penetrant into the bolt threads. Eventually it will unscrew.

    I believe your hull material is molded SMC, not fiberglass. There are some SMC specific repair methods and materials, depending on how bad the damage is. Post some clear photos of that area.

    If the hull was damaged when the pump base was pried off, you have some work to do. Not only does the transom need to be waterproof to keep water out of the hull, but the alignment of the jet pump with the engine is determined by how the pump base aligns with the transom and the hull centerline.

    The transom is also where the full thrust of the jet pump gets transferred to the hull (to make you go forward), and the pump base is the only place the entire jet pump weight is supported by the hull. Lots of stresses on the hull where the pump base is mounted.

    Make sure the plastic water tube that runs along the right side of the pump is not cracked or damaged. Also check the O-ring at the pump nozzle end of the water tube.

    Be sure to check the engine cylinder compression. Both spark plugs out, throttle held wide open.

    Make sure the correct spark plugs are installed. NGK PZFR6H plugs, no substitutes.
    Install new plugs, even if the current ones look good.

    Clean and re-ground the ignition coils, just to be sure.
    Last edited by K447; 04-06-2010 at 03:02 PM.

  6. #6
    PWC Addict lilman573's Avatar
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    Ok! So i have been away for a while on business, house stuff, etc. but I just wanted to update this thread a little bit!

    After getting the jet pump apart, cleaned everything off thoroughly and gave it a nice coat of anti-fouling paint. Bought a rebuild kit from SBT. Came with everything i needed( except they use china stamped bearings but oh well) Baked the stator(which turns out not to be stainless steel.. and is a 5 vein) froze the bearings and viola! A rebuilt pump! It spins like a dream now! [U]

    While everything is off down here, should i do anything to the through hull bearing?

    Before i put the rest of the seals on the pump and finish the rebuild I need to do some serious cleaning here. I want to get the base mounted again and find an alignment tool so that i can get the pump back on to troubleshoot the fuel injection! I bought the connectors and cable so that i can hook my laptop up to the injection system but i may have problems getting the software.... any ideas?
    Last edited by lilman573; 06-12-2012 at 01:03 PM.

  7. #7
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilman573 View Post
    ...While everything is off down here, should i do anything to the through hull bearing?...
    Might as well replace the seals in the through-hull bearing.

    The seals are not expensive, and straight-forward to remove and replace.

    Replacing the seals and bushing in the through-hull assembly


    There are different versions of the through-hull bearing
    Early units with crimped ends can not be repaired, but they can be directly replaced with the newer style assembly (1996-2004, except MSX)
    Well, maybe the crimped style can be rebuilt
    Click here for a list of parts sources

    The seals tend to wear more than the brass bushing, so probably do not need to change the bushing, unless it is worn.
    Replacement seals can be purchased from any Polaris OEM parts source, or generic seals may be installed.


    Generic Drive Shaft Seal carrier seal part# 8702 (Two required, or three?)


    www.ebearings.com SKF Rawhide 8702
    Shaft 0.875
    Bore 1.499
    OD 1.503
    Width 0.25


    SKF #563541 (22mmx38mmx8mm)

  8. #8
    PWC Addict lilman573's Avatar
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    So! Here is a little update. Pulled the waverunners from where they were sitting so that i could pull the polaris off and into the garage so that i could work on it.

    I saw the basics on how everyone was building thier stands... so for about 40 bucks.. i built one of my own from two moving dollies from harbor freight.


    Cleaned and preped the base of the jetpump to be reattached:
    before
    after!

    So the "original" problem was it running a little rough, so i started looking around and found a few interesting things... the EMM isnj't looking so hot. Maybe a cooling line leak going in? ... i am hoping the real problem is the throttle positioning sensor, and that it is all superficial rot on there...


    Also, found what perplexed me because it was just something sitting in the engine bay.. turns out to be the remnants of the water injection unit.


    Can anyone tell me what the hell this thing is??!!!


    Just a small update hope to get the pump mounted and working on the fuel injection within a week or two. I got all the materials to make a communications cable, but am having trouble getting the software. The dealer i called said they wouldn't even buy it for me...
    Last edited by lilman573; 06-12-2012 at 01:05 PM.

  9. #9
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Remove the remnants of the water injection solenoid. Cap off the water connections. One end is tucked up into the bottom of the exhaust pipe. Hard to see, use a small mirror, and look at the underside near the MAG injector.

    Remove the tape from the wire end you found. There should be a connector along that wire somewhere, which you can unplug.

  10. #10
    PWC Addict lilman573's Avatar
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    Holy CRAP!!!

    This used to look like that?!! Wow.


    I will trace the lines out and get rid of the excess and take the wire ends out of the solenoid side of the waterproof connector and dead end it there. So basically i am doing this to remove the water solenoid:


    All the replacement work done for this motor was done by the dealer it was purchased at!!! Kind of makes me mad that i didn't pay closer attention before!

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