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  1. #1
    desperado's Avatar
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    Desperado FZS Build

    Ok... 2nd season on my FZS is about top begin.


    Last season, I ran a top speed of 82.4mph with the following mods:
    • Motec with my own calibration setup
    • E1 wheel
    • Custom cold air intake
    • 550cc injectors
    • Bosch BOV
    • R&D intercooler core
    • DF 13/22 @ 8,700rpm
    • R&D cooling kit
    • Free flow exhaust
    • Intake ribbon removed
    • R&D grate with seal kit
    • Stock plate with 0.085" shims
    • R&D fuel pressure regulator & rising rate setup
    • Custom oil breather setup
    • AEM wideband O2 controller
    For this year... I am looking at a consistent and reliable 85mph+ top speed. Mods currently being done are:
    • Complete engine rebuild:
      • Cams
      • Riva valve train
      • JE forged pistons
      • Carillo rods
      • Riva head stud kit
      • Full balancing
    • Riva Powercooler intercooler
    • Greedy BOV
    • Bosch EV-14 625cc injectors
    • Malory FPR
    • Motec oil temperature probe installed directly on oil pan
    • Motec fuel pressure sensor
    • Custom cooling system to address GIO
    • Custom 110 octane 3 gals. auxiliary racing fuel cell with fully automatic switching from main fuel tank when the engine is running WOT -- allowing more agressive timing and finally overcoming the main pitfall with the Motec system: which is no knock sensing.
    • High flow Bosch "044" fuel pump
    • Riva mirror block-off's
    • VX rideplate
    • Jettrim seat cover
    I am very excited about these new mods. The custom 110 octane setup is very nice. It will be key in allowing more power from more aggressive ignition timing. This is a different strategy than simply throwing more boost and will result in peak cylinder pressure similar to increasing pressure by 15% over & above what can be generated by the E1 wheel. I have designed a reliable system that is 100% automatic and which switches from premium 93 octane and 110 octane gas depending on engine load and rpm.

    A few pics of my current work in progress....
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  2. #2
    MoTeC Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desperado View Post
    Ok... 2nd season on my FZS is about top begin.



    Last season, I ran a top speed of 82.4mph with the following mods:
    • Motec with my own calibration setup
    • E1 wheel
    • Custom cold air intake
    • 550cc injectors
    • Bosch BOV
    • R&D intercooler core
    • DF 13/22 @ 8,700rpm
    • R&D cooling kit
    • Free flow exhaust
    • Intake ribbon removed
    • R&D grate with seal kit
    • Stock plate with 0.085" shims
    • R&D fuel pressure regulator & rising rate setup
    • Custom oil breather setup
    • AEM wideband O2 controller
    For this year... I am looking at a consistent and reliable 85mph+ top speed. Mods currently being done are:
    • Complete engine rebuild:
      • Cams
      • Riva valve train
      • JE forged pistons
      • Carillo rods
      • Riva head stud kit
      • Full balancing
    • Riva Powercooler intercooler
    • Greedy BOV
    • Bosch EV-14 625cc injectors
    • Malory FPR
    • Motec oil temperature probe installed directly on oil pan
    • Motec fuel pressure sensor
    • Custom cooling system to address GIO
    • Custom 110 octane 3 gals. auxiliary racing fuel cell with fully automatic switching from main fuel tank when the engine is running WOT -- allowing more agressive timing and finally overcoming the main pitfall with the Motec system: which is no knock sensing.
    • High flow Bosch "044" fuel pump
    • Riva mirror block-off's
    • VX rideplate
    • Jettrim seat cover
    I am very excited about these new mods. The custom 110 octane setup is very nice. It will be key in allowing more power from more aggressive ignition timing. This is a different strategy than simply throwing more boost and will result in peak cylinder pressure similar to increasing pressure by 15% over & above what can be generated by the E1 wheel. I have designed a reliable system that is 100% automatic and which switches from premium 93 octane and 110 octane gas depending on engine load and rpm.

    A few pics of my current work in progress....
    Hi Desperado
    Sounds good
    Pleased you are progressing the ski.


    I know you will be all over the dual fuel tank thing but before everyone rushes out and copies you can you explain how you will address the switch over delay to the better fuel
    ie the boost comes up and the extra timing comes in to match the better fuel but the better fuel will be delayed as the line empties of the 93.
    Going the other way wont matter of course.
    You could use a timer or you could use the change over taps close to the engine but there will always be some delay before the good fuel gets there, yes ?

    This is the exact scenareo you get with NOS and if you look in our NOS set up you will see a whole load of timers for delay and attack of spark to do with NOS going in and out.

    Also, will you measure when there is not enough 110 in the tank so that you dont get a lean situation as it runs out.
    You could do a timing comp based on a low fuel switch mounted in the 110 tank.

    As I said I know you will have it sorted just worried about the copy guys.

    Cheers



  3. #3
    desperado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoTeC Pete View Post
    Hi Desperado
    Sounds good
    Pleased you are progressing the ski.


    I know you will be all over the dual fuel tank thing but before everyone rushes out and copies you can you explain how you will address the switch over delay to the better fuel
    ie the boost comes up and the extra timing comes in to match the better fuel but the better fuel will be delayed as the line empties of the 93.
    Going the other way wont matter of course.
    You could use a timer or you could use the change over taps close to the engine but there will always be some delay before the good fuel gets there, yes ?

    This is the exact scenareo you get with NOS and if you look in our NOS set up you will see a whole load of timers for delay and attack of spark to do with NOS going in and out.

    Also, will you measure when there is not enough 110 in the tank so that you dont get a lean situation as it runs out.
    You could do a timing comp based on a low fuel switch mounted in the 110 tank.

    As I said I know you will have it sorted just worried about the copy guys.

    Cheers


    Hi Pete,

    You're addressing the main challenge...

    The system involves a dedicated high flow fuel pump, Bosch "044", for the 110 octane circuit and a high flow fuel solenoid mounted directly on the fuel rail. Once activated, the main fuel tank pump shuts down and the 110 octane fuel solenoid opens at the fuel rail. Pressure is always available and ready as the 110 octane fuel pump is always on. Upon activation, the only 93 octane left in the system is equal to the fuel volume left in the fuel injection rail... which ain't much and will be consumed in the first few seconds. The Motec timers will be setup to take care of the first few 3-5 seconds.

    I have sold many of these kits which I originally designed for turbocharged performance snowmobile & racing. They operate flawlessly and allow to run extra boost without the fear of damaging an expensive engine from knock. Many people have purchased the system strictly for peace of mind without adding additional timing, especially those people who run gas purchased in marinas or in local low volume stations where gas quality is often questionnable. The bonus is the extra 3 gallons of run time (5 gallons if used with a TBM tank...).

    Pete, based on your testing and dyno runs... what would be the timing advance delta at WOT between the Motec SHO "C" calibration files and a 110 octane setup if the original safety factor remains constant?

    Cheers...

  4. #4

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    Question

    Please tell me a little more about your cam upgrade? Tommy Jordan

  5. #5
    desperado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2fast4u View Post
    Please tell me a little more about your cam upgrade? Tommy Jordan
    They are prototypes with higher lift, longer duration and different in/ex timing. I can't really say much more at this point .....as development is still worked on..........

  6. #6
    db2540's Avatar
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    This is going to be one good read. Hopefully after about the tenth time I read this thread I will know what you are talking about. Keep up the good work.

  7. #7
    Addicted Member 5001craig's Avatar
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    Very interested in this thread. I learn with every post you make Martin.

    Thanks.

  8. #8
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    I am intrigued by your fuel system. I like the idea that you can cruise around, just burning premium, then when you want to "open her up" and haul a$$, you switch fuels.
    You could do the same for lesser modded ski's. 87 octane for cruising, and 93 octane for WOT runs. Pretty smart.
    However, I understand it requires a separate fuel tank/system. What happens when the "high octane" runs dry?? I'm assuming if the fuel pressure dropped on that system, you could program the Motec to take out boost and timing.
    But, what about the guy with just a reflash??

    I think it's a unique idea, and you could use one of those auxiliary, rear mounted fuel tanks for whichever fuel you chose.

  9. #9
    desperado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iflyems View Post
    I am intrigued by your fuel system. I like the idea that you can cruise around, just burning premium, then when you want to "open her up" and haul a$$, you switch fuels.
    You could do the same for lesser modded ski's. 87 octane for cruising, and 93 octane for WOT runs. Pretty smart.
    However, I understand it requires a separate fuel tank/system. What happens when the "high octane" runs dry?? I'm assuming if the fuel pressure dropped on that system, you could program the Motec to take out boost and timing.
    But, what about the guy with just a reflash??

    I think it's a unique idea, and you could use one of those auxiliary, rear mounted fuel tanks for whichever fuel you chose.

    This is easily addressed: system is disabled when fuel level and/or pressure falls below a preset low value and the auxiliary fuel pump shuts down.... then rider knows he's out of 110 octane gas as the engine simply dies.... but all gets back to normal when the throttle flipper is reduced from WOT.

    Motec users can even setup total cumulative WOT fuel consumption calculations based total WOT time and GPH at WOT , therefore permitting an automatic enable/disable of the system based on calculated fuel level left in tank.... .... safety measures can be as numerous as you want. However, for most recreational riders, 3 gallons of WOT time is a lot and it will be time to refill the main tank anyway....

  10. #10
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    I just think the idea has some potential. I understand how simple it could be. I used to drag race motorcycles, and used NOS, so I'm a little familiar with those types of systems.
    You could probably even do it off a demand type system; i.e. manifold pressure. You'll need the "good stuff" as you accelerate away from the dock, under boost. But once your cruising upriver at 5000 rpm, your boost is pretty much zero, and your compression would also drop.

    With Premium running about 30 cents more per gallon, and the Seadoo's designed to run only on premium, it would be possible to cruise on 87 octane, but also have the 93 octane as the demand required it.

    Or, am I being an idiot, and the engine compression/fuel octane need doesn't change without load???

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