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  1. #1

    msx140 power lose under load

    I have a 2004 msx140. Noticed toward the end of last year I was loosing power when playing around and loading up the engine. When I winterize the ski I notice some brown rust colored deposits around one of my fuel injectors. First run this summer I notice my top speed is low and I'm only able to rev to 6000 RPM. When I tried to play around the ski didn't have power to pull out of a spin or accelerate when nose diving and loading the engine. I ordered new plugs, some fuel injection cleaner and I plan to snug up the throttle cable to see if the unit performs better. Any thoughts on the rust colored deposit around the fuel injector???? Thanks for any help!!!!!!!!!!!


  2. #2
    ryandi2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msx140-rider View Post
    I have a 2004 msx140. Noticed toward the end of last year I was loosing power when playing around and loading up the engine. When I winterize the ski I notice some brown rust colored deposits around one of my fuel injectors. First run this summer I notice my top speed is low and I'm only able to rev to 6000 RPM. When I tried to play around the ski didn't have power to pull out of a spin or accelerate when nose diving and loading the engine. I ordered new plugs, some fuel injection cleaner and I plan to snug up the throttle cable to see if the unit performs better. Any thoughts on the rust colored deposit around the fuel injector???? Thanks for any help!!!!!!!!!!!

    number one thing is to do a compression test.. click the link in my sig and read up on your model

  3. #3
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Arrow Ficht fuel injector - removal, inspection, cleaning, re-install

    Rust or black colored ooze around the bottom of fuel injector implies that the injector is not sealing properly to the cylinder head.

    Remove the injection mounting bolts, and lift the injector bracket off. Make sure you don't loose the fat O-ring that sits on top of the injector, just under the top of the bracket.

    Check for damage to the injector body or tip. Look for cracks in the injector body.

    Clean up the mess, and inspect the hole in the cylinder head. The injector seal to the cylinder head is a straight metal to metal seal, with no gasket or O-ring.

    Check the tip of the injector for excess carbon. If it is loaded with carbon, carefully clean the injector tip with a soft cloth and some solvent. Do not use anything rough or abrasive on the injector tip. Be gentle. Do not remove the tip from the injector. If the carbon layer is not excessive, leave the injector tip alone.

    If no problem is found, reinstall the injector. Hand tighten the injector bolts, and make sure the injector is centered in the cylinder head sleeve.

    Make sure the fat O-ring is in position on top of the injector as you slide the injector mounting bracket down over the injector.

    Torque the injector bolts evenly, in stages, to 18ft-lbs.

    Do NOT over-torque the fuel injector bolts, and do not tighten them unevenly. The injector tip must not be jammed against the side of the cylinder head hole.

    If you remove more than one injector, mark on the injector which cylinder it came from (MAG, CEN, PTO). Only re-install a Ficht injector on the same cylinder it came from.

  4. #4
    Thanks for the help guys. K447, I will do all of that along with the rest of the stuff I mentioned. I have spare injectors, if I were to find a problem and replace the injector do I need to have the computer reprogrammed to match the injector to the ecu. I've been told this is the case when making changes to the fuel system.
    I will post results after the weekend.

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msx140-rider View Post
    ...I will do all of that along with the rest of the stuff I mentioned.

    I have spare injectors,

    if I were to find a problem and replace the injector do I need to have the computer reprogrammed to match the injector to the ecu?

    I've been told this is the case when making changes to the fuel system.

    I will post results after the weekend.
    Do not bother adding automotive fuel injector cleaner in the fuel tank. Ficht injectors are very different from regular automotive injectors.

    Do you have the EMM that matches those spare injectors?

    The injector programming data is stored inside the matching EMM. A dealer can transfer injector data from one EMM to another.

    Otherwise, you can physically install a 'spare' injector, but you will not know whether the EMM data for the old injector is close enough to correct to be 'safe' running the replacement injector.

    Polaris sells special replacement injector 'kits', that include a disc to update the EMM with the correct injector data for that particular injector.

    Unlike automotive injectors, the 2000-2004 Ficht injectors are not all the same. Each one is slightly different, and has its own set of 'compensation values' that are loaded into the EMM.

    The EMM uses this compensation data to fine tune how it drives each injector, and correctly deliver the fuel into each cylinder.

    Polaris Ficht Fuel Injected Engines

  6. #6
    Thanks again, I have a local dealer that worked on my skis before he used the spare emm i have to try and get my other ski working a few years ago. Turned out it wasnt the emm instead the stator was bad. I'm sure the program has been changed. They claim they can match the emm to my other injectors. I m going to verify this before I go to them. The injector cleaner I bought came form amsoil and claims to be a good additive for pwc's. Will this cause a problem if I use it?

  7. #7
    ph2ocraft's Avatar
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    It won't cause a problem you just may not see a benefit.

  8. #8
    What a surprise, I just got off the phone with my local dealer and they told me that as long as the injector I have is out of the same year and model ski with the same part number I do not have to do any reprogramming of the emm. I,m getting close to buying my own soft mare for these things. Does anyone have an in on what or where to buy the stuff.

  9. #9
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Arrow Ficht FFI EMM compensation values are matched to specific injectors.

    Quote Originally Posted by msx140-rider View Post
    ...my local dealer and they told me that as long as the injector I have is out of the same year and model ski with the same part number I do not have to do any reprogramming of the EMM...
    That was true only for the very first year that FFI Ficht was released - in 1999. All Injectors for the 1999 Genesis FFI (the only Ficht model in 1999) are exactly the same, and are interchangeable. The 1999 injectors are known as 'uncompensated' injectors.

    It turned out that it was very expensive to manufacture the Ficht injectors to the precise tolerances required to make them identical. Many injectors did not quite meet the specifications for flow consistency, and were discarded during manufacturing quality assurance.

    After 1999, the Polaris Ficht EMM was changed to make it 'compensate' for differences between individual fuel injectors. Rather than discarding the injectors that did not exactly meet 'spec', the injectors were all flow tested on a special test jig.

    For each individual injector, a set of compensation values were generated from the flow testing. The EMM was electronically loaded with the compensation values for each of the injectors to be installed on the engine, and that combination of EMM and injectors became a 'matched set'.

    The attached image shows a typical set of injector serial numbers and the compensation values for each injector (the four numbers listed below the serial number). These injectors are called 'Compensated' injectors.

    All 2000-2004 Polaris Ficht injectors are of the compensated type. Each one has its own unique set of compensation values loaded into the EMM.

    The EMM uses the compensation data to shorten or extend the electrical pulses used to fire each injector. Making the pulse shorter reduces the volume of fuel injected, while making the pulse longer increases the fuel volume.

    The EMM knows how much fuel it wants to inject for a given throttle position and engine RPM, and uses the compensation values to adjust the injector electrical pulse to result in exactly the right amount of fuel being delivered.

    Note that part of the reason for this tight fuel control is that the Polaris Ficht engines meet the California Low Emissions requirements for 2006, even though these engines were made well before 2006.

    When you swap injectors without loading the matching compensation values, the resulting fuel delivery to that cylinder can become either more lean than specified, or richer than specified (depending on how the old and new injectors compare in actual fuel flows).

    If the fuel flow with the replacement injector turns out to be greater than the old injector, then you will run the engine richer than spec. This is unlikely to cause any damage, but may well result in increased emissions from the exhaust.

    If the replacement injector ends up deliver LESS fuel flow at some engine RPM ranges than the original injector, then you run the risk of lean burn temperatures within the combustion chamber.

    A mild case of leaner operation might be OK in that cylinder, but these Ficht engines already run fairly close to the lean edge to minimize emissions, and maximize fuel economy.

    An injector with mismatched EMM compensation values that results in a very lean fuel:air ratio could cause piston damage (melting). One would have to keep a careful watch on the piston wash patterns until you were sure it was burning with a reasonable wash pattern.

    It is unclear how much actual flow difference can exist between various Ficht injectors (highest to lowest compensation values that were allowed in production).

    Ask your dealer if they are sure about the risk of engine damage from using a mismatched injector.

    As noted earlier, if you BUY a genuine replacement injector from Polaris, it comes with a disc that updates the EMM with the newer compensation values.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    ph2ocraft's Avatar
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