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Thread: Matrix Heads

  1. #1
    Matrix 200 suparoo's Avatar
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    Matrix Head Design

    I'd really like to try and get the Matrix to run on high octane pump gas. Here in New Zealand that's 95 Ron. We can get 98 Ron in some places but not where I live.
    Ever since I have owned the ski I have never been able to get the wash patterns I would like and have put it down to the fuel. I know it must be on the edge running the 95 as once it got 91 put in it (not by me)and the motor lasted about an hour before it detonated all three cylinder into seizure.
    I've tried 50/50 avgas/95 and its better but not perfect. I've also tried the 98 which gives it a lot more noticable power and is starting to get close.

    The next time I run it (cold here now, Check out the web cam bellow to see the snow on the other side of the bay) I'm going to run 100% Avags just to see what the wash does etc. I know about the pit falls of Avgas but want to try it just to see waht effects it has, cant hurt.

    The Motor has 150-153 Psi on all cylinders so the compression I dont think is over the top , but i did read that there is a problem with the squish band on the heads that some of the Matrix's where fitted with, so I think the next thing to do is change the head.

    It has three base gaskets on the cylinders which I would say was done to lower the compression.

    Jetting is as follow's

    Mag 150 42 68 1 1/2 Turns out on both High and low
    Cen 148 40 68 1 1/2 Turns out on both High and low
    Pto 150 42 68 1 1/2 Turns out on both High and low

    The cen is running pretty good but the mag and pto are still a little lean/hot. I think it is way rich as each time I ride it there is a lot of black on the hull around the exhaust outlet.

    So does anybody have a one peice head with a good squish band setup or can somebody remachine mine (but perferabley the first option)

    Cheers John
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    Last edited by suparoo; 05-31-2010 at 06:43 PM.


  2. #2
    SPEED KILLS, BUT YOU GET THERE QUICKER Keddano's Avatar
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    John,Glad you started the discussion.

    We will be needing others "That Know" to add to it.

    I have the Polaris 1200 Marine Head on my MSX 150 conversion. Like yours,Baxter added base gaskets to raise the port timing(2 or 3,I have heard both amounts were used). So with that in mind,if they designed the head to be used with extra gaskets,and first thing guys did was to remove the extra base gaskets,replace with just one and have the cyls ported. The squish band clearance planned for would be gone.

    Cylinder dropped lower=piston sits higher to the dome.

    This was the case with my engine,I had cylinders ported by delaughter for use with just 1 base gasket,then put the stock 2 piece Matrix head on. My squish clearnce was nothing.And I smoked the engine down in no time (All my fault for not checking the squish when assembling the engine.)

    Also the 1200 Marine head angle of the band was appox. 11 degree,which is the same angle as the pistons top. Most 2 stroke engines have a 2 or 3 degree differance in the squish band angle and piston top angle.

    I have since had the head Squish band remachined on a CNC with the extra min. clearance for the squish at the outermost edge and a 13 degree angle.

    So far so good.

    Now back to your case of wanting lower compression. Increasing the angle on your band would add some area (and should help with less chance of heat build up on the edge of the pistons),How much of a compression drop,I couldn't tell you. But my understanding is a proper design squish band angle would surly help in aiding to prevent detionation in the cyl.

    I would check what your squish clearance is now. There is more to this thing with the matrix head then I know,but I think I did hit on the main source of why there was alot of the failures.

    The guy that did the CNC'ing on my head has the program still. He works out of his home with the CNC and charged me $35.00 a hour, my head cost $120.00 to be done,and this guy is a perfectionest.

    Those heads are rare,so any machining you have done,make sure you know what you are going for,before hand.

    Also,Jay and Sharps say they are going to make some more heads for the 1200 DI engines,that would have interchangable domes for different compression,so that maybe a option for you in the near future.

  3. #3
    Matrix 200 suparoo's Avatar
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    That's some good info. Just a few questions on your setup.

    Do you know what your before and after compressions were?
    What octane gas does this allow you to run on?
    Is your jetting similar to mine?

    Here's a pic of what happens if the octane is to low. This was on 91 Ron octane (which is about 87mon USA Scale) The gas I use at the moment is 95 Ron (91mon)

    I've attached a couple of piston wash pics the one that looks a bit milky on the centre cylinder was 95 with lucas octane booster the other one is 50/50 mix of 95/avgas. Both these washes were done in the middle to end of winter when the water temp is way down. On the coldest run I have ever done the wash got really good, but during summer the wash goes like the Mag cylinder in the first pic.

    It looks to me that its getting pretty close both. The Cen has always been the best but the other two are all over the place depending on the temp of the day.

    Performance is 68Mph (GPS) @ 7450rpm (MFD) I'm 6ft4' and 100kg's 3/4 tank of gas.
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  4. #4
    SPEED KILLS, BUT YOU GET THERE QUICKER Keddano's Avatar
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    I'll have to look back and see if I can find the notes on the compression,I think I'm at 135 psi now. I've been running 50/50 98 octaine and 110 Turbo blue for now,going to ween it down after I get some more time in the seat.Really haven't been on it much since it was built.Just been too busy with life and the farm.

    Were's all the input from the guys that lived thru all the growing pains of the Matrix in the early days. It's been 6 to 7 years ago. Let's hear what the faults was with the real design. It's not like someone should get ticked over the truth spoken. We know there was Big Problems,otherwise there would have never been 2 other styles made to replace the factory head.

    Update: Did some checking back on my build thread,It dropped my compression from 155# down to 130#

    Here's the link to the area and what was done to the head.

    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/show...xtreme&page=38


    Quote Originally Posted by Keddano View Post
    Man I love Iowa and the people here. Called a guy that has a small engine shop here that did my boring on the PSI skis cylinders,He also use to do some R&D work with Polaris. Scott Minzenmeyer.

    Well he directed me to a guy that lives by him that has a sweet machine shop set-up at his house and does custom CNC work.I called Doug Van Waart Friday night and told him what I was needing,he said he had nothing going on this weekend and swing by Saturday. A short 22 mile trip and I arrived 4:00 at his nice log home in the woods.

    Discussed what need to be done. Change the squash to .057 -.060 clearance and change the squash band angle 2 degrees from 11 to 13 degrees. He said he would do the cutting program in Ideas and would have it done Sunday for me. This guy does the machining as a hobby. And at $35.00 an hour.

    10:30 Sunday morning the call came in,ALL DONE,COME AND GET IT. $112.00

    So another quick trip and I was on my way back home to check squash and get the rest done that is needed.

    If anyone needs any custom machining,I can pass his # on.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by suparoo View Post
    I'd really like to try and get the Matrix to run on high octane pump gas. Here in New Zealand that's 95 Ron. We can get 98 Ron in some places but not where I live.
    Ever since I have owned the ski I have never been able to get the wash patterns I would like and have put it down to the fuel. I know it must be on the edge running the 95 as once it got 91 put in it (not by me)and the motor lasted about an hour before it detonated all three cylinder into seizure.
    I've tried 50/50 avgas/95 and its better but not perfect. I've also tried the 98 which gives it a lot more noticable power and is starting to get close.

    The next time I run it (cold here now, Check out the web cam bellow to see the snow on the other side of the bay) I'm going to run 100% Avags just to see what the wash does etc. I know about the pit falls of Avgas but want to try it just to see waht effects it has, cant hurt.

    The Motor has 150-153 Psi on all cylinders so the compression I dont think is over the top , but i did read that there is a problem with the squish band on the heads that some of the Matrix's where fitted with, so I think the next thing to do is change the head.

    It has three base gaskets on the cylinders which I would say was done to lower the compression.

    Jetting is as follow's

    Mag 150 42 68 1 1/2 Turns out on both High and low
    Cen 148 40 68 1 1/2 Turns out on both High and low
    Pto 150 42 68 1 1/2 Turns out on both High and low

    The cen is running pretty good but the mag and pto are still a little lean/hot. I think it is way rich as each time I ride it there is a lot of black on the hull around the exhaust outlet.

    So does anybody have a one peice head with a good squish band setup or can somebody remachine mine (but perferabley the first option)

    Cheers John
    hello Jhon
    i know this is an old trhead but what i found very interesting in these
    jets it is that they are very near to my 2005 matrix oem

    It has 42,75 and 148 on all 3 carbs it has 150 psi and more important for me , my machine has the accelerator pump cutted,the pump cannot spray fuel so i'm asking you if you have the same set up.

    Me too has the center cilinder leaner than the others two.

    i hope you could still answered to me

  6. #6
    Matrix 200 suparoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by modesto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by suparoo View Post
    I'd really like to try and get the Matrix to run on high octane pump gas. Here in New Zealand that's 95 Ron. We can get 98 Ron in some places but not where I live.
    Ever since I have owned the ski I have never been able to get the wash patterns I would like and have put it down to the fuel. I know it must be on the edge running the 95 as once it got 91 put in it (not by me)and the motor lasted about an hour before it detonated all three cylinder into seizure.
    I've tried 50/50 avgas/95 and its better but not perfect. I've also tried the 98 which gives it a lot more noticable power and is starting to get close.

    The next time I run it (cold here now, Check out the web cam bellow to see the snow on the other side of the bay) I'm going to run 100% Avags just to see what the wash does etc. I know about the pit falls of Avgas but want to try it just to see waht effects it has, cant hurt.

    The Motor has 150-153 Psi on all cylinders so the compression I dont think is over the top , but i did read that there is a problem with the squish band on the heads that some of the Matrix's where fitted with, so I think the next thing to do is change the head.

    It has three base gaskets on the cylinders which I would say was done to lower the compression.

    Jetting is as follow's

    Mag 150 42 68 1 1/2 Turns out on both High and low
    Cen 148 40 68 1 1/2 Turns out on both High and low
    Pto 150 42 68 1 1/2 Turns out on both High and low

    The cen is running pretty good but the mag and pto are still a little lean/hot. I think it is way rich as each time I ride it there is a lot of black on the hull around the exhaust outlet.

    So does anybody have a one peice head with a good squish band setup or can somebody remachine mine (but perferabley the first option)

    Cheers John
    hello Jhon
    i know this is an old trhead but what i found very interesting in these
    jets it is that they are very near to my 2005 matrix oem

    It has 42,75 and 148 on all 3 carbs it has 150 psi and more important for me , my machine has the accelerator pump cutted,the pump cannot spray fuel so i'm asking you if you have the same set up.

    Me too has the center cilinder leaner than the others two.

    i hope you could still answered to me

    Hi - Mine still has the accelerator pump connected. To sort this problem I ended up have to get the Hi speed adjuster needles fitted to the carbs and just mucked with it from there - took a long time to get right.

  7. #7

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    Matrix 2005 no accelerator pump

    I've read all your post about your matrix they are very interesting and clear.
    thank you for your quickly answered i was looking for another sky tuned as mine.
    i suspect , due to the fact mine is a 2005 oem presentation sky,she is
    so tuned for pollution....could it be that without accelerator pump
    emission are lowered?
    i don't have any particular issue with the sky it has 6 hours on the clock,i m'not planning to use it a lot and i prefer it reach,i'm satisfied
    with performance and buy it and restore for personal collection.
    At the same time i'm building a spare motors for her.
    Now i'm pick here and there parts,and i don't exclude if you agree to ask for your help in the future.

    Jhon many thanks to you

  8. #8
    Matrix 200 suparoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by modesto View Post
    I've read all your post about your matrix they are very interesting and clear.
    thank you for your quickly answered i was looking for another sky tuned as mine.
    i suspect , due to the fact mine is a 2005 oem presentation sky,she is
    so tuned for pollution....could it be that without accelerator pump
    emission are lowered?
    i don't have any particular issue with the sky it has 6 hours on the clock,i m'not planning to use it a lot and i prefer it reach,i'm satisfied
    with performance and buy it and restore for personal collection.
    At the same time i'm building a spare motors for her.
    Now i'm pick here and there parts,and i don't exclude if you agree to ask for your help in the future.

    Jhon many thanks to you
    No trouble - Happy to help if I can, ill dig up the final jetting that ive got written down in a note book somewhere.

    Post up a couple of pictures of your ski, Id be interested to see what it looks like

  9. #9

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    Pm me your email i don't know why but i'm not able to
    post pictures on gh

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