06-01-2010, 08:36 AM #1
Hadi some fun with Cooling temps. this weekend.
I wanted to see if everyones GIO (Gas in Oil) was caused from low engine temps.
I needed a oil change anyway.
This is what was done and found.
Ran first tank at 45celius or 113F. This is about what a openloop wou.ld run your boat with no thermostat or valve.
I found that I had filled my catch can about half way in just this 1 tank of fuel and had a strong smell of Gas in my oil.
THen I changed my temp to 70c or 158F and drained my catch can and went out and ran another tank of fuel. What I found was this. My catch can had about 2table spoons full of fuel. I was impressed. Still had a smell of gas in my oil and I believe it was from the first tank and test, but ofcoarse not totaly sure.
I think this info can be usefull for people that wonder why they have a lot of GIO. If running a open loop.
I then changed my oil and set or left my temp at 70C.
06-01-2010, 09:17 AM #2
Im in no doubt that engine temps effect the GIO issues, but oil temp is still more key than engine temp. Its obviosly allot easyer to get your oil temps up if the engine is running warmer but when running these aggressive ECUs its important to keep engine temps under control. Im running a thermo on my open loop now the superstock is 75 C thermo and my Fun ski is 78 due to stock ECU and easyer riding in general. Im sure there would be some tempreture creap when doing long WOT runs but thats not what my ski is used for. 5-8 seconds max WOT when on the CC track.
I Would be interested to see how engine temps effect the ring seal as well as I feel that a cold engine will not seal up as tight as a proper temp engine and therefore you are going to see an increase of contamination from the combustion chamber getting into the oil.
So the issues could be caused by 2 things, increase in contamination and low oil temps causing the fuel/water not to be evaporated.
Lets face it we have not had any coming online saying the Riva OL kit has caused GIO hav we... That is not a dig at any other kits as I have seen on my personal boat GIO issues when it was being ridden REC and then the GIO issue go away when it was being ridden alot harder round a CC track. This was when I had it setup the same way Les does them. Ridden hard I think the Les Cooke and JD open loop kits are fine but they simply run everything to cold for the REC rider just cruising around.
I bet if you were to do an oil cahnge then go ride her for 10 min flatout everywhere you would not see so much of an issue at the lower engine temps. R88
06-01-2010, 09:19 AM #3
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Libertyville ILL
I wonder ,,if thats why the Rotax racing thermostat is 155 degrees????
06-01-2010, 11:17 AM #4
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Lake Dunlap, Texas
In almost all instances no. Engine oils can stand temps in excess of 300 degrees. Just think you are in your vehicle on a 90 degree day in stop a go traffic--Most late model vehicles run 200 degree plus thermostats to meet exhaust emmissions--with a engine oil temp gauge hooked up you will see oil temps close to 300 degrees under above conditions. Will keep you posted on our testing.
06-01-2010, 12:58 PM #5
Run Mobil 1 race oil in you ski and yes you can run it hotter with no issues.
Also although you have no oil cooler hooked up on your car the sump pan is sat in the airflow on most vehicles and so benifits from some cooling. This is obviosly a luxury that Jetskis dont benifit from.
Plus you have to consider that these are highly strung engines esspecially whaen modified, there are not many 1500cc road engines pushing out 250-300hp.
I agree that it is probably possible to run without the oil cooler hooked up but if you have 170F engine temps the oil would get very hot very fast at WOT, Run your engine cooler and you maybe able to maintain sensible oil temps as the whole block would be acting as a oil cooler.
06-01-2010, 06:25 PM #6
This is what I have found with riva termostat the motor would run 230f wot at 8550 and oil 165f. So what I did was drill out restriter washer to 13.84 mm and unhooked the oil cooler how temp are moter 170 oil 215 wot at 8550 bin running that for 10 hrs
06-01-2010, 07:54 PM #7
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Auckland, New Zealand, New Zealand
Over the weekend I ran my first enduro with Open Loop. I have been testing different water routing ever since I got the JD kit. Early on in the testing it was just the kit as per JD's instuctions. Engine temps never really saw much over 100f, way to low. We developed the Water Bomb thermostat housing to run inline off the head and started experimenting with diffrent heat range thermostats. Riva then re-thought their kit and included a thermostat also.
I still continued to experiment with different water routing, even running a 2nd thermo off the oil cooler. But that seemed to create other issues. The main goal was to just have the water coming off the head and out of the oil cooler the same temp.
The other issue to resolve was the excessive water pressure running through the engine given it was being fed straight from the pump. The modern engine only runs an internal water pressure of maybe upto 15psi and we are all seeing more than that.
I did not want to add another inline from the pump, I was happy with the full volume of water going to the IC and I have never had any issues with the IC swelling.
So the set up that worked flawlessly over a 100 mile River enduro at mostly well over 80mph WOT (peak of 85.9mph) and resulted in only 100mls of liquid in the catch was this.
Single 3/4 inch in line coming from pump (restrictor washer drilled out to JD Open Loop Spec) straight into IC (Original Poranha Racing IC) out of IC then split by a Y joint running 3/4 inch hose to exhaust manifold and a 5/8 line running to JD block off plate. I then have a 6mm line coming off the plate and dumping excess water over board thru a pisser, this reduces some of the pressure of water inside the engine but does not effect the total volume still going in. Water temp is then controlled by a 71c thermostat inside the Bomb off the head and dumped overboard thru a 3/4 inch hose and pisser. 3/4 line to carry water volume but not to add any restriction. I am then taking water off the top of the J-pipe as per most, but have added a restriction down to 6mm (Louis recommends 4mm, may still go that small) and supply the oil cooler with that, then dump that over board thru a 6mm pisser. Thats it. Very simple and tidy inside the boat.
End result is that after over 1 hour of continuous WOT and 100miles, I have an engine water temp that peaks at no more than 190f or about 87c and sits around 165f to 175f at anything less than WOT.
06-01-2010, 09:50 PM #8
Thats sounds great. My kit is basically run like this. I run just as rivas kit, but I restrict the the water with a vlave and my duynotune temp gauge and bleed excess pressure from a IC bleed line. SO I flow more water from the IC and help reduce engine pressure. Just as yours does at the plate I do it at the IC bleed line.
Thanks for the INFO.
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