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Thread: I Blew It!

  1. #1

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    Unhappy I Blew It!

    Well, I had the 97 Xp out for the first time on Sunday and it was quite a day.

    Let me take you back and down a road that I call, Seadoo PooPoo Road. It was a beautiful day and my bro and I were going to take our newly purchased rides out for a spin. It was almost 90 degrees and that was a good thing as the lake we are on, Chillhowee Lake, is very cold. We just got the boats out when the black sky started to roll in. But we were excited and determined to have a run around before it hit.

    We warmed em up and scooted around for a bit and then headed to shore to pick up my kids so they could at least get a ride before we had to head back, and that wasn't long. That storm came down the river so fast that we had to turn and head back after aboout 5 minutes. I was heading straight into the wind when I started to turn it around to start back towards the landing. I was in a left turn in all of a sudden white caps when a wave hit me broadside. My son and I were thrown off the right side of the boat into the frigid water. It was a big shock. Waves comming up, current coming up, wind coming up. I was 10 feet from the boat and my son, 11 and a good swimmer, about 20 ft. We had to get back to the boat before we it got away from us. I got there first, and I looked back to see my son having a hard time against the current and with dealing with the shock of the cold water. I told him to stay fast, and I'd bring the boat to him. Here's where it get fun...not!

    I got the boat back to him and had him hang on. Although I wasn't really worried about hypothermia, it was still in the back of my mind, so I wanted to get my son up on the boat asap. I climbed up the back of the XP and told him to follow my lead. But like it's been talked about here on the forums before, it's hard for a smaller person to do so out in the water. Especially in bad weather, and with the cold water. He tried quite a few times, but couldn't get up on the back without going off to one side or the other. I needed to get him out of the water, so I got off, and got him up on the boat. Now it's my turn. I tried a few times and fianlly thought I had it, but my weight was just too much. The front came way up and I bailed. Time to start heading to shore to get some shelter.

    There was no way I was making it to the roadside shoreline because the current was just too strong so I swam down river to a island dead ahead. We got there after about 10 minutes of swimming and I found some shelter under the brush. Now, right about now you might be asking yourself, where the hell was his brother? Well, he had headed back to the boat ramp to drop off my daughter. There was no way he was heading back to get me with her on in that bad weather. So we waited.

    When I first got back to shore and got mounted back up, I was so relieved. I got all situated, keyed back up and pushed the starter. Thud, thud. What?!?! These batteries are the top of the line. We've only had the things off the tender for a couple weeks. I can't belive that they are already dead. They seemed to be cranking just fine when we started out today. Oh well. I guess we wait for my bro to come back. We had been on the water about an hour by the time I started to see my brother head back my way through the fog. At least the storm had subsided. He got to us and I loaded my son up on his boat and he took him back to shore. He came back and got me, we each put a foot in each others footwell and headed back to the ramp. Slowly. Just over idle. It took us a while, but we used to the time to remark on how fast that fun day went to a sucky day, and about how many beers we were going to have when we got back to the cabin.

    Got the boats out and on the trailer and headed back to the cabin for a warm shower and some good food. We were determined to try again this weekend. Maybe without the storm this time.

    Now, that's not going to happen. After having that bad gut feeling that it was more than a battery I started to look around on greenhulk.net to see if I could find a correlating story to one like mine. A good battery and still no turnover. I did a search and all that came up was discussions about water in the cylinder. My heart sunk. No...that can't be it. It was only on it's side, about 3 o'clock postition, for a scant few seconds. These can't be so easy to get water into. But the feeling woulnd't go away. I got off work and had to fix the washing machine. I had been putting it off, and I had to go out of town tomorrow and do school work tonight, not to mention Boy Scouts with my son, so it would have to wait. The washer repair was a success! I coudn't let it go though. Sign up the wife to take my son to Boy Scouts and I'm heading to my brothers to check on the Seadoo.

    Here's where greenhulk.net really came into it's own. I got to my brothers, heart beating frantically. Would it be a dead battery, or the dreaded water in engine? I tried to turn the XP over and still, nothing. So I popped open the top, and took out the plugs. I pulgged the key back in and turned it over again. Old Faithfull would have been proud. Water came out both cylinders like there was no tomorrow. I was crushed. How could water get in there so fast? It wasn't even upside down. I couldn't believe it, but I had to.

    So, I went back to the thread where I had seen a process called "fogging", that was talked about when stuff like this happens. The best post I found was from a user on here that had given me some other advice on other topics. It was KrunchovXPL-GTX-RX. I followed his proceedure to a 'T', and got the XP to kick off after not much time. It was a small victory, but a victory nontheless. While I wasn't ecstatic, it was still something to give me a very small bit of ease for the night.

    Now it's what to do from here? As far as all I have read I really need to tear the whole thing down unless I want a catastrophic failiure in the not so distant future. I would like some advice on what you guys think needs to be done, and a very rough guess on how much it will cost. I have seen rebuilts for under $800 including a 2 year warranty, but not sure if that's the way to go. Or how much it would cost to have said engine put in. Any help would be much appreciated as the summer has just kicked off, and I have little funds to spare to fix my XP.

    On another note, is this a fairly common occurence on the 97 XP with it's "Ram Air" tubes up front, or did I just get unlucky? On the owners manual it shows righting the boat in a full flip over by rotating it clockwise, to avoid water getting in the engine. I can't see how this would be possible if mine was only on it's side for a few moments and still got water in it. Even if I do get it fixed, I'm not so sure that I won't be too scared to ride it knowing that it can happen again the very next time I go out. I'd like to hear some opinions on this as well.

    Well thanks for listening. It was a bit cathartic for me to write this all down. I'll be out of town until tomorrow night, so please be patient with my replies.

    Later.


  2. #2
    WBoulton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNDragon View Post
    Well, I had the 97 Xp out for the first time on Sunday and it was quite a day.

    Let me take you back and down a road that I call, Seadoo PooPoo Road. It was a beautiful day and my bro and I were going to take our newly purchased rides out for a spin. It was almost 90 degrees and that was a good thing as the lake we are on, Chillhowee Lake, is very cold. We just got the boats out when the black sky started to roll in. But we were excited and determined to have a run around before it hit.

    We warmed em up and scooted around for a bit and then headed to shore to pick up my kids so they could at least get a ride before we had to head back, and that wasn't long. That storm came down the river so fast that we had to turn and head back after aboout 5 minutes. I was heading straight into the wind when I started to turn it around to start back towards the landing. I was in a left turn in all of a sudden white caps when a wave hit me broadside. My son and I were thrown off the right side of the boat into the frigid water. It was a big shock. Waves comming up, current coming up, wind coming up. I was 10 feet from the boat and my son, 11 and a good swimmer, about 20 ft. We had to get back to the boat before we it got away from us. I got there first, and I looked back to see my son having a hard time against the current and with dealing with the shock of the cold water. I told him to stay fast, and I'd bring the boat to him. Here's where it get fun...not!

    I got the boat back to him and had him hang on. Although I wasn't really worried about hypothermia, it was still in the back of my mind, so I wanted to get my son up on the boat asap. I climbed up the back of the XP and told him to follow my lead. But like it's been talked about here on the forums before, it's hard for a smaller person to do so out in the water. Especially in bad weather, and with the cold water. He tried quite a few times, but couldn't get up on the back without going off to one side or the other. I needed to get him out of the water, so I got off, and got him up on the boat. Now it's my turn. I tried a few times and fianlly thought I had it, but my weight was just too much. The front came way up and I bailed. Time to start heading to shore to get some shelter.

    There was no way I was making it to the roadside shoreline because the current was just too strong so I swam down river to a island dead ahead. We got there after about 10 minutes of swimming and I found some shelter under the brush. Now, right about now you might be asking yourself, where the hell was his brother? Well, he had headed back to the boat ramp to drop off my daughter. There was no way he was heading back to get me with her on in that bad weather. So we waited.

    When I first got back to shore and got mounted back up, I was so relieved. I got all situated, keyed back up and pushed the starter. Thud, thud. What?!?! These batteries are the top of the line. We've only had the things off the tender for a couple weeks. I can't belive that they are already dead. They seemed to be cranking just fine when we started out today. Oh well. I guess we wait for my bro to come back. We had been on the water about an hour by the time I started to see my brother head back my way through the fog. At least the storm had subsided. He got to us and I loaded my son up on his boat and he took him back to shore. He came back and got me, we each put a foot in each others footwell and headed back to the ramp. Slowly. Just over idle. It took us a while, but we used to the time to remark on how fast that fun day went to a sucky day, and about how many beers we were going to have when we got back to the cabin.

    Got the boats out and on the trailer and headed back to the cabin for a warm shower and some good food. We were determined to try again this weekend. Maybe without the storm this time.

    Now, that's not going to happen. After having that bad gut feeling that it was more than a battery I started to look around on greenhulk.net to see if I could find a correlating story to one like mine. A good battery and still no turnover. I did a search and all that came up was discussions about water in the cylinder. My heart sunk. No...that can't be it. It was only on it's side, about 3 o'clock postition, for a scant few seconds. These can't be so easy to get water into. But the feeling woulnd't go away. I got off work and had to fix the washing machine. I had been putting it off, and I had to go out of town tomorrow and do school work tonight, not to mention Boy Scouts with my son, so it would have to wait. The washer repair was a success! I coudn't let it go though. Sign up the wife to take my son to Boy Scouts and I'm heading to my brothers to check on the Seadoo.

    Here's where greenhulk.net really came into it's own. I got to my brothers, heart beating frantically. Would it be a dead battery, or the dreaded water in engine? I tried to turn the XP over and still, nothing. So I popped open the top, and took out the plugs. I pulgged the key back in and turned it over again. Old Faithfull would have been proud. Water came out both cylinders like there was no tomorrow. I was crushed. How could water get in there so fast? It wasn't even upside down. I couldn't believe it, but I had to.

    So, I went back to the thread where I had seen a process called "fogging", that was talked about when stuff like this happens. The best post I found was from a user on here that had given me some other advice on other topics. It was KrunchovXPL-GTX-RX. I followed his proceedure to a 'T', and got the XP to kick off after not much time. It was a small victory, but a victory nontheless. While I wasn't ecstatic, it was still something to give me a very small bit of ease for the night.

    Now it's what to do from here? As far as all I have read I really need to tear the whole thing down unless I want a catastrophic failiure in the not so distant future. I would like some advice on what you guys think needs to be done, and a very rough guess on how much it will cost. I have seen rebuilts for under $800 including a 2 year warranty, but not sure if that's the way to go. Or how much it would cost to have said engine put in. Any help would be much appreciated as the summer has just kicked off, and I have little funds to spare to fix my XP.

    On another note, is this a fairly common occurence on the 97 XP with it's "Ram Air" tubes up front, or did I just get unlucky? On the owners manual it shows righting the boat in a full flip over by rotating it clockwise, to avoid water getting in the engine. I can't see how this would be possible if mine was only on it's side for a few moments and still got water in it. Even if I do get it fixed, I'm not so sure that I won't be too scared to ride it knowing that it can happen again the very next time I go out. I'd like to hear some opinions on this as well.

    Well thanks for listening. It was a bit cathartic for me to write this all down. I'll be out of town until tomorrow night, so please be patient with my replies.

    Later.

    wait, so you got it cranking over now??? If so I would just do a compression test. if it passes throw plugs back in and run it. I've already done this to my own ski. BTW 97 xp's from what I read are known for getting water in up in them. you need invest in a bilge pump.

  3. #3
    KrunchovXPL-GTX-RX's Avatar
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    How much water was in the hull when you pulled it out?

    If there was not say up to the top of the rear hatch opening than the water probably came from the waterbox via the pipe. If it rolled with the pipe up and with it bouncing like that who can say, it could have dumped all that water in the exhaust right into the engine.

    It could have flooded the hull if it was bouncing around in heavy chop, not running, and had people trying and failing to get back on it (which tends to roll the hull, as I am sure you discovered). I would like to state that I ride a '99 XPL with those same tubes. I have ridden in some stuff that would make you mess your shorts (waves on Ft. Loudon with white caps above the hood on the boat, and worse stuff off shore at St. Augustine). Never once has my hull flooded. In fact I doubt the bilge pump has ever even come on (and I can assure you, on that hull you KNOW when it has that much water in it, even on a plane you can tell).

    That is one knock I have on the 787. I do not want to set those guys off but I have seen them time and again roll or partially roll and then not run. Most just wet the plugs as your's is a bit of an extreme case, but I have never had a 717 (and I rolled my old '95 XP several times) or even a 951 do that (though if you did roll it back over the wrong way you would have a problem).

    I am not sure a full rebuild would be in order if you got it running. You may need to see about making sure the Counter Balance shaft cavity does not have water in it since I do not think the '97 has the plug in the cases like the later models.

    Other than that, if you got it running and dried out it may be ok. 787s are tougher than 951s in several respects and they tend to put up with more abuse. You just have to get it running and dried out.

  4. #4
    Approx. how many hours did you leave water in the engine. After starting it, what exactly did you do to dry it out?

  5. #5
    97 787 engines have both the filler and the drain plugs...

    Most of the 96's have drain plugs, but no filler plug.

  6. #6
    KrunchovXPL-GTX-RX's Avatar
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    Good, then he can drain it.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by WBoulton View Post
    wait, so you got it cranking over now??? If so I would just do a compression test. if it passes throw plugs back in and run it. I've already done this to my own ski. BTW 97 xp's from what I read are known for getting water in up in them. you need invest in a bilge pump.
    Yes. I got it cranked and started. It still had some water in the cooling system as evidenced by the water comming out upon starting it. I ran it for about 15 seconds. Shut it down, and started again no problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrunchovXPL-GTX-RX View Post
    How much water was in the hull when you pulled it out?\

    If there was not say up to the top of the rear hatch opening than the water probably came from the waterbox via the pipe. If it rolled with the pipe up and with it bouncing like that who can say, it could have dumped all that water in the exhaust right into the engine.

    It could have flooded the hull if it was bouncing around in heavy chop, not running, and had people trying and failing to get back on it (which tends to roll the hull, as I am sure you discovered). I would like to state that I ride a '99 XPL with those same tubes. I have ridden in some stuff that would make you mess your shorts (waves on Ft. Loudon with white caps above the hood on the boat, and worse stuff off shore at St. Augustine). Never once has my hull flooded. In fact I doubt the bilge pump has ever even come on (and I can assure you, on that hull you KNOW when it has that much water in it, even on a plane you can tell).

    That is one knock I have on the 787. I do not want to set those guys off but I have seen them time and again roll or partially roll and then not run. Most just wet the plugs as your's is a bit of an extreme case, but I have never had a 717 (and I rolled my old '95 XP several times) or even a 951 do that (though if you did roll it back over the wrong way you would have a problem).

    I am not sure a full rebuild would be in order if you got it running. You may need to see about making sure the Counter Balance shaft cavity does not have water in it since I do not think the '97 has the plug in the cases like the later models.

    Other than that, if you got it running and dried out it may be ok. 787s are tougher than 951s in several respects and they tend to put up with more abuse. You just have to get it running and dried out.
    Not much water in the hull at all. I'd say there was like an inch or two up in the front of the hull in the engine bay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seapoo View Post
    Approx. how many hours did you leave water in the engine. After starting it, what exactly did you do to dry it out?
    Water was in it about 24 hrs. I should have done something about it right away, but I was ingnorant in this regard. Like I said, I thought it wasn't turning over because of the battery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Dood View Post
    97 787 engines have both the filler and the drain plugs...

    Most of the 96's have drain plugs, but no filler plug.
    Quote Originally Posted by KrunchovXPL-GTX-RX View Post
    Good, then he can drain it.
    What do you guys mean by this?

    EDIT: Oh, and thanks for the replies.

  8. #8
    KrunchovXPL-GTX-RX's Avatar
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    Look at the parts blow up for your engine and you will see them. I would pull the drain plug just in case there is any water in there and then add some injection oil through the fill plug (not much, I think 30ml is the fill on it).

    This might keep the cb shaft and gear from trying to corrode on you.

  9. #9
    To elaborate a bit more, the 787 has a bit of poor design for the counterbalancer drive and end bearing. It is an open design, intended to use the oil fog of the PTO cylinder to lube the CB gear and end bearing. It is lower than the crankcase, to intentionally gather oil into the gear and CB bearing.

    However, when you get water in the engine, the water has a hard time getting out of the low spot in the CB cavity. Water will sit there and corrode the bearing. You should pull the allen head plug on the bottom of the cavity and drain out the water. There is a filler cap just above it to add oil into this area to help flush out the water and get a starter charge of oil going.

    If you run the engine long and hard enough, most of this water will get out of the CB area, but you are already on borrowed time.....

    I might add that pulling this plug at the bottom can be a bit difficult,saying it nicely....

  10. #10
    KrunchovXPL-GTX-RX's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, it looks like a royal PITA.

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