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  1. #1
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Question 2003 MSX 140 stumper????

    Ok here goes, had the ski out this weekend, it stumbled a little bit on saturday, at RPM ranges above 5500, it had a pretty rythmic stumble, let off the throttle got back in it all was fine. Today, we went out for a run, 3 miles across the lake, no issue, headed back after a stop, got about 2 miles into the 3 it died was running about 5000 rpm, started right back up, within the next mile it quit and would not start. Here is the stumper part, red white wire on injectors shows 20 volts at crank, 45 at start up,kill engine and power bleeds back off as I would expect. I got it running in the shop, dumped some fuel in throttle body, and now it will start... have run long enough it is not residual fuel. If I rev up from idle, dies as soon as I let off the throttle. I have checked fuel pressure on scrader valve, 24-25 range. Compression 1,2,3 =120. It just does not sound right, so I unplugged TPS, she jumped to 3000 rpm's instantly, sounded like she was supposed to, plugged TPS back in while running no change to idle held 3000, killed motor restarted with TPS plugged in, same nasty bogging sound, will increase RPM with throttle, but as soon as I let her go, she dies. Could it be as simple as the TPS???? or does anybody have any thoughts before I send off for a new TPS.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    I would change the TPS. It might not be the TPS, but that is the least expensive part to change out, and is the most reliable way to determine if the TPS is the problem.

    With the TPS unplugged, I would have expected an idle much closer to 1150 RPM than 3000 RPM

  3. #3
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Talking ????

    Yes me too, however stranger things have happened?? Ever heard of a Polaris Fusion 900, I got several of those, they also do wierd things... I will keep you informed, after reading through the sight there are many things it could be, but I cannot imagine this to be an isolated incident, at least with the Fusion if one guy had the issue, several others had the issue, I am sure this is similar. Got my Fusions running with any sled on the trail, very dependable, I think with some teamwork and elbow grease I can get this ski to behave.

  4. #4
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Question TPS unplugged still have throttle response

    This does not seem correct to me, is it possible and if so, how... Unplugged TPS 3000 plus RPMS and still have throttle response.

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomanch1967 View Post
    This does not seem correct to me, is it possible and if so, how... Unplugged TPS 3000 plus RPMS and still have throttle response.
    If the EMM is supplying excess fuel (which it is to reach 3000 RPM when it should be at idle RPM), then it will act like a carburetor engine, and when you open the throttle to allow even more air through, the RPM will rise.

    Without a known good TPS, we are just guessing.

    If it still does strange things with a good TPS, then the EMM is the central suspect (which I think it already is).

    Or you can just go ahead and send the EMM off for checking and possible repair.

  6. #6
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Smile I am in agreement

    too many wierd things going on... I thought about the fuel delivery being cranked up, and then by opening the throttle bodies it will run to rpm based on air delivery, but here is where it falls apart for me, with TPS plugged in it idles at normal RPM, however when I touch, and I mean just touch the throttle it dies, for sure fuel related, (EMM has to be retarding fuel flow with TPS hooked up behavior seems logical, with the TPS gone, it just does not make sense that EMM would send more fuel, zero voltage)I am watching a timing light, spark does not quit until motor stops turning. Unplug the TPS, immediate run up of RPM 3100-3200, plug TPS back in, hangs at the 3100 mark, but runs like a mad bitch, like it is supposed to, kill it, start back up with TPS plugged in, idles normally, dies at a touch of the throttle. I know it is related to TPS or EMM, I have a TPS on the way, no error codes except 11 which I believe is all is good in paradise. Just hate electronics, feel like a parts changer rather than a mechanic. At least I believe I have isolated the issue to one of 2 places. Called my Polaris dealer today, who is also a good friend, he said why did you buy that piece of shit... ordered me a TPS and a crank position sensor, says those are the usual suspects. CPS was probably a waste of time... I am leaning towards EMM the more I think this through.

  7. #7
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Talking Update

    I think the sticking wires in pins method was failing me, I am getting codes now.
    43, 41, 52, 53, 51, 17, 12... 52, 53, 51 and 12 could be from my testing as I disconected injectors to check voltage and TPS, so I would expect an open error. 17 not really alarming, have verified good output. 43 however is a hard code, and never had the cooling circut apart for my 41. Ski never appeared hot, or shows no signs of being overheated, so maybe all this to find a bad temp sensor?? Still seems strange to me that I would have this behavior over a temp sensor no indication on dash that I have a problem. Any more thoughts?? I am ready to pull the Fitch control unit and send in for testing, otherwise I feel like I am throwing money at the wall hoping it will stick. THANKS A TON FOR showing how to build a test system and where to hook it up. If anyone needs to build one with the connectors not just sticking pins in, I can get the connectors, we use them in many applications here in my shop. Just ring me up on here, and I can send you some!! LED with built in diode was the way to go, Radio shack stocks them, I tucked 2 leds in a project box, with a long extension(multi conductor cable, added the 2nd LED for showing power jump on 8 pin pulled from Fitch box. For this to work, hook the positive lead of 2nd led to 12VPower Pin 8, hook other end to ground I am using a clip on motor for ground, you still do the 8 and 2 jump, you could also grab ground in the 8 pin connector) so I can set it anywhere and watch the codes. I tried hooking everything up with pins stuck in sockets, was hard to actually get it working, tooooo many places that it could fail, so went to hard connections, works like a champ!!

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Sticking wires in pins method?

    Show us what you built

  9. #9
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Smile Jumper wires....

    Using jumper wires in the sockets, instead of the Deutz connectors themselves with pins. Seems I was getting drop with contacts on pins using the jumper wires. Once I built the thing using connectors, it worked great!! I will post some pics of it at some point in the near term(1-2days) on the road for work, right now I am working on getting this rig back up and running... Thanks for all your help.

  10. #10
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Thanks K447

    My parts will be in today, will let you know how it goes... I will put together a wire diagram and parts listing for what I built for a diagnostics display from the great information you posted!!(This weekend) It turned out great, and works like a champ... I will show it to my dealer buddy today, I am sure he will flip over it. Poor guys at the dealer don't want anything to do with watercraft... they are all over our sleds and 4 wheelers, but the watercraft all they want to do is order the parts. It is too bad, but I don't mind having an orphan machine. Again thanks for all the info, and I will for sure pay it forward.

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