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  1. #1

    Exclamation Opinions needed on dropped sleeves

    I had cylinders resleeved by sbt on my 03 msx 140 and from day one the compression hasn't been right!100across board before breakin,after mag110,cen112,pto115. Piston clearance is borderline at. 008",ring gap is good at.0018.so where is the compression it should have??? I started really inspecting cylinders and saw on all 3 that the sleeves had dropped! This would explain why I had water leaking into center cylinder and oil in the oring slot and between head and cylinder on pto cylinder, because the orings can't properly seal!everything was torqued on the heads and it leaked I'm betting because of the dropped sleeves.and I'm also betting this is why my compression #'s aren't up where they should be! Sbt is giving me a very hard time with this whole ordeal.Ive been told this and that and that ive seized the rings,caused a four corner seizer,etc. all b.s! Everythings in great shape.what do u guys think???


  2. #2
    Connecticut CrazyA's Avatar
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    How about some pics? I personally don't think you'll have much luck with getting SBT to cover it, but who knows???

  3. #3
    ujustlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 gtx rfi View Post
    I had cylinders resleeved by sbt on my 03 msx 140 and from day one the compression hasn't been right!100across board before breakin,after mag110,cen112,pto115. Piston clearance is borderline at. 008",ring gap is good at.0018.so where is the compression it should have??? I started really inspecting cylinders and saw on all 3 that the sleeves had dropped! This would explain why I had water leaking into center cylinder and oil in the oring slot and between head and cylinder on pto cylinder, because the orings can't properly seal!everything was torqued on the heads and it leaked I'm betting because of the dropped sleeves.and I'm also betting this is why my compression #'s aren't up where they should be! Sbt is giving me a very hard time with this whole ordeal.Ive been told this and that and that ive seized the rings,caused a four corner seizer,etc. all b.s! Everythings in great shape.what do u guys think???
    How long have you had this motor? They are telling you it is a four corner seizer and you dont think it seized at all or? If the motor is under warranty, I thought SBT has a no fault warranty!!!! I though that typically on a four corner seizer it is due to too tight of clearances between the piston and the jug or lack of lubrication. Can you give us a little more history of the motor and some timelines of what has happened?

    Depending on what some of your answers are, I would say this. If the motor IS under warrany then SBT has a no fault warranty and you should be taken care of. If the motor is old enough to be out of warranty, then chances are that something else has happened or gone wrong with your ski to cause it to seize like that. IMO if the problem was bad clearances then the seizer would have happened within the first ride or so, not X amount of months and/or years later.
    I'll check back on this one as I am curious to see how it all works out for you.

  4. #4
    They are saying four corner seizure or that I've seized the rings because their machinist done shi**y work and want to blame me for it! This was sbt's top end kit for my msx.I assembled the engine about 3 weeks ago,installed in ski,and checked compression.it was 100 across the board! That was low! Called sbt and told em what was up and they said it was kinda low but they had say them like that before,so I was told to go ahead and break it in and compression would come up.but 25-30lbs???no not even close! I knew it wouldn't but did what they said anyway.it did come up but not like they were saying.one of their techs said his was at 106lbs before breakin then 135 after! B.s! I've rebuilt several engines and never seen more than a 10-15 lbs increase! This engine now has 7 hours on their top end.I broke it in strickly according to their procedure and am getting told that the rings must be seized or you have caused a four corner seizure due to improper breakin.so I dismantled the top end and guess what? All 6 rings pop rite out of cylinders and expanded(no ring seizure) and as for that four corner seizure...there are barely any marks at all on pistons or cylinders and absolutly no seizure marks at all! This engine starts and runs smoothly but compression isn't right and its causing a leak into cylinder due inner o rings not being able to seal properly because the sleeves they installed have dropped.everything else is fine on clearances except this! So im almost positive this is what it has to be.I will try to post pics tomorrow of the sleeves thanks for the input guys

  5. #5
    ph2ocraft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 gtx rfi View Post
    I knew it wouldn't but did what they said anyway.it did come up but not like they were saying.one of their techs said his was at 106lbs before breakin then 135 after! B.s! I've rebuilt several engines and never seen more than a 10-15 lbs increase!
    It's probably their same idiot tech who stated an engine isn't hot until the paint is peeling off the cylinders. Yes dynamic duo go look it up, it's in writing, copied and pasted all over the place.

    I know it's a little late now but I am of course curious as to why you didn't just send the damaged cylinders off to US Chrome or somebody else to have the cylinders repaired and re-nicked? With this type of repair you have no sleeve issues, keep your better heat dissipating nicked cylinders and of course you can run the stock pistons and rings...

    I'm still not hearing about the better "quality control" sbt was talking about...

  6. #6
    2&4strokepolaristech's Avatar
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    if you would like send your cylinders out to us and we will look at them and tell you if there is something that can be done with them.....

  7. #7

    Thumbs down

    Sbt is such a joke! I shipped my cylinders back and the say bolted them up and checked compression and say its at 125! Now they say that there's a problem with my heads! Come on, 2 of the cylinders were at 120 psi with113 hours of run time before I dismantled it.I think they used different heads like the 1200di instead of msx to check compression.I say this because they didn't even have msx cylinders in stock,so I had to send mine in for resleeving,so why would they have set of heads for it laying around?summer is wasteing away while my waverunner sits screwing around with these idiots playing the blame game! What a mistake! Just would like my money back or them fixed right!!!

  8. #8
    1FASTXC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 gtx rfi View Post
    Sbt is such a joke! I shipped my cylinders back and the say bolted them up and checked compression and say its at 125! Now they say that there's a problem with my heads! Come on, 2 of the cylinders were at 120 psi with113 hours of run time before I dismantled it.I think they used different heads like the 1200di instead of msx to check compression.I say this because they didn't even have msx cylinders in stock,so I had to send mine in for resleeving,so why would they have set of heads for it laying around?summer is wasteing away while my waverunner sits screwing around with these idiots playing the blame game! What a mistake! Just would like my money back or them fixed right!!!
    Those cylinders should have never been sleeved in the first place. Were the nikasil bores chewed up? If not, they would've only needed a honing because nikasil is very hard and takes alot to wear out to the point they need recoating unless they are involved in a seisure. They hold size and roundness very well. Even after being seized they should've been recoated instead of sleeved. Sounds like another screw job by sbt as usual. At this point your best option is to send them to Jay who posted above and have them looked over to see what can be done with them. They should be able to save them one way or another, it may just take a little more work to salvage them. Make sure to tell all your friends about the "quality" work you recieved from sbt. Hopefully if the word gets out to enough people something will change, or atleast someone can be saved some headaches. I don't know how anyone can defend the GARBAGE these morons sell.

  9. #9
    ujustlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1FASTXC View Post
    Those cylinders should have never been sleeved in the first place.
    Why not? I know places that sleeve 785 motors so you can run oversize 750 pistons
    In your opinion, is that ok to do? And if so, why not any other nikasil jugs? Thanks Mike

  10. #10

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    YIKES !!!!!!!!!!

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