Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1

    04 msx 150 wastegate problems

    I've been wrestling with my wastegate on my 04 MSX 150 because I Was getting next to no boost after messing with the wastegate linkage.

    The engine is running great, but I'm limited to 5950-6000 rpms. Kosh suggested (in another thread that is now closed) testing my w. solenoid. Here's my symptoms and tests I've done.

    Tested the wastegate actuator with air compressor: The rod moves the wastegate arm from fully closed to fully open with no problem at all when I put air to the fitting on the actuator. Starts to move the wastegate arm at 6lbs.

    Wastegate solenoid: With no power to it, compressed air goes unchecked from the turbo side of the solenoid, through the solenoid, and exits through the fitting that comes out the top of the solenoid at a 90 degree angle. When I do the same thing with 12v applied to the solenoid, no air comes out of that 90 degree hose fitting.

    On the water, I get very little turbo boost.

    I know the turbo still works, because I took it for a brief spin without the seat on, and if I reach down and pull the linkage back up toward the actuator, the thing takes off like a rocket.

    Boost/temp sensor, intake sensor, coolant temp sensor, 02 sensor are all new.

    Gas is fresh. I get 45.2 psi on the fuel supply line ( average of four readings).

    plugs are new and properly gapped. Compression on both cylynders is within limits.

    I have no warning lights or indicators at all.

    I reset the ECU using my manual's listed reset procedure after all the work/tests were complete, but prior to putting the ski in the water.

    Yesterday, while I was trying to figure this out, I was crusing at about 6000 rpms, and I wanted to see where the rpms would be if I pulled up on that linkage again. I accidently pulled off the small hose running from the solenoid to the wastegate actuator. The hose came off on the solenoid end--and POW!! RPMs went to 7200, and was stiil climbing. I killed the engine, put the hose back on, replaced the factory pull-ties on the hose, and started her up. I was right back to 6000 max rpms.

    Anyone have any ideas? I'm hoping a major blunder on my part will be obvious to someone else.

    Thanks,
    FLV


  2. #2

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    953
    +1
    28
    Hi FLN,

    I have had this problem in the past and although the ecu is supposed to relearn after problems are repaired the only thing that worked for me was a reflash on the ECU . Desperado can reflash standard and modified. I beleive Polaris dealers may be able to do a standard reflash? maybe someone in the know can confirm this.

    Not what you want to here.

    Cheers

  3. #3
    Kosh:

    Does the functioning of my wastegate solenoid sound correct to you. When the ski is not running ( no 12v power) or under low rpms air goes through the solenoid and comes out the ninety-degree hose fitting on top of the solenoid and to the actuator via the connected hose. With 12v applied, no air flows through. I suppose I'm having trouble with the conecpt of the solenoid in my mind. I thought if the ski was off, or no voltage was applied to the solenoid, boost pressure would not flow through, and the wastegate would not open. When the ECU senses a preset rpm (and some other pre-programmed fuctions), it triggers the solenoid to open and allow boost pressure to flow through, thereby pushing open the wastegate, which is in-turn conrtinuously held in check by the actuator's built in spring.

    If so, my solenoid is open with no power, and closed when 12v is applied.

    What am I not understanding about this concept? I must be missing something, because if the above is true, my solenoid is working backwards. The problem is most likely with me, but I just can't see it. Air is coming through the solenoid and actuator, but the problem seems to be that the wastegate cannot close because the boost pressure is stronger than the actuator's built in spring, and ecxcess pressure is not being vented.

    Now, I have to admit that I'm getting frustrated. I think I have said this same thing seven different ways on greenhulk. I thank you for replying, but other than two quick replies on my first post, you are the only person who has replied (although thanks to the first two, as well) in detail. I'm not putting anyone down here at all. I mean not eveyone has experienced EVERY problem possible on an MSX 150. Ninety percent of my questions have resulted in no response whatsoever. I sent a dfetailed PM to Desperado, and I expect he'll be back to me when he can.

    So, please, in the meantime: DOES THE FUNCTIONING OF MY WASTEGATE SOLENOID ONLY SOUNd CORRECT? NO POWER=AIR COMES THROUGH. 12V APPLIED=AIR FLOW IS BLOCKED.

    Please forget everything else for the momement. As always, I appreciate your input.

    Thanks,
    FLN

  4. #4
    Click my Avatar for signature links, Polaris info
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    27,252
    +1
    397
    There just are not that many of us who know our way around the Weber engine.

    Several of the top Weber engine guys around GH are currently rather busy elsewhere, so they don't have much time for the forum during peak season.

    For the rest of us, often the questions are so specific to the Weber engine that we can't even hazard a guess. I don't own a Weber model, and have never worked on them.

    Unless I feel I can really help, I tend to not post.

    Have you tried direct phoning or messaging Randy at Watcon, or Jay at Sharps Marine?

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Stamford CT
    Posts
    123
    FLV:

    "So, please, in the meantime: DOES THE FUNCTIONING OF MY WASTEGATE SOLENOID ONLY SOUNd CORRECT? NO POWER=AIR COMES THROUGH. 12V APPLIED=AIR FLOW IS BLOCKED."

    Yes, this sounds correct. This is the best way to ensure positive control over the turbo by the ECM. Without a signal from the ECM, boost will be limited to the actuator spring release pressure, the 6psi described above.

    If you saw 7200 with the hose disconnected from the gate actuator you probably don't have a boost leak so I would begin looking at the solenoid control circuit and valve first. If this all checks out then maybe the ECM is the issue and it may need to be re-flashed.

    The inserted image should aid in troubleshooting. I would do some continuity checks on the control circuit to eliminate a wire issue then I would try a voltage check with the ski in the water. The voltage check would probably require some creative splicing because, according the service manual, the ECM can detect an open circuit.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Wastegate Solenoid.jpg 
Views:	184 
Size:	84.8 KB 
ID:	204242

    Do you have the old style (mounted on turbo) or new style valve (mounted on valve cover)?

  6. #6
    Thanks, Ride04msx:

    I have now replaced everything I can think of regarding the turbo system: solenoid, MAP and boost pressure sensors, intake temp sensor, oil level perfect, new plugs, intercooler moving only water--no oil in it--yet, after all this, I'm still getting no pressure from the turbo to the solenoid, but if I give the wastegate a little help (push, noty pull as I mistakenly wrote somewhere), or if I pull off the hose between the actuator and the solenoid, the turbo kicks in perfectly. Pushing the wastegate open creates no engine lights or errors on the display, pulling the hose off, of course, eventually creates an overboost condition and all the limiting that tis problem has untuil I pull the lanyard, resinseert ther lanyard, and restart.

    I am currently trying to determine which "ECU reset" I should use. A few posts have called the throttle-body reset sweep an "ECU reset," but I understand that this is not reseting the ECU, but, is instead, merely the ski relearning the throttle sweep. A few posts say to start the ski, let it warm up, disconnect the main relay while the ski is running, and wait 20 minutes before reconnecting and starting. And a few say run the ski for five minutes, disconnect while running, wait five minuters , then restart and go. What's your thoughts on this?

    Thanks,
    FLN
    Any ideas where to go from here?

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    953
    +1
    28
    Trust me, Try another ECU or get yours reflashed.

    Cheers

  8. #8
    Click my Avatar for signature links, Polaris info
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    27,252
    +1
    397
    Quote Originally Posted by freelancenovelist View Post
    ...A few posts say to start the ski, let it warm up, disconnect the main relay while the ski is running, and wait 20 minutes before reconnecting and starting.

    And a few say run the ski for five minutes, disconnect while running, wait five minutes , then restart and go...
    I don't think the exact timing is important. The idea with that relay pull while running is to 'surprise' the Weber engine ECU.

    The long delay afterwards forces the ECU to time out of any recovery cycle it may have.

    When you later reinstall and restart, the ECU realizes it needs to start with the basics, hence it is 'reset'.

  9. #9
    Well, after a few months of pulling my hair out over the turnbo/wastegate refusing to work properly, I finally figured out why the tubo wouldn't kick in. It was actually a combination of problems.

    The little, green seal that came on my brand new MAP sensor had a little defect and was leaking boost pressure. Put on a new seal and max RPMs went from 5850 to 6250, which still left the problem squarely in the realm of Boost Leak . . . somewhere.

    Even though the dual seals on the banjo fitting coming out of the turbo (which goes to the back of the wastegate solenoid) were there and tight, the fitting was leaking. When I originally pulled the motor I never touched this fitting. I machined some thin washers to use as seals while waiting for the proper seals to arrive, and this jumped my rpms from 5250 to 7650 +/-50. Got the new seals today, put them on and max rpms are steady at 7700 +/-50.

    This is stuff you all probably already know, and I'm just putting it down for any newbies who may come across this problem.
    My biggest problem had been understanding the operation of the turbo and wastegate. Many of you tried to help and I can't begin to properly express my thanks, sometimes it was just good to have something else to check when I was at a standstill, whether it worked or not. I read everything I could, but came to the incorrect understanding that the wastegate opened to give more boost when needed. Not true. Boost is there from the get go, increases with rpms, and when boost pressure reaches the point where the pressure can be destructive, the engine bleeds off over boost by overcoming the actuator's spring strength and pushing open the wastegate, which bleeds off boost pressure and reduces rpms (abd pressure) to allow the actuator spring to pull the gate in the other direction to keep boost up to whatever rpms you are at. The ECU pulses the wastegate solenoid as needed in direct relationship to rpms (triggers at 4000, I think), overboost pressure (to open the wastegate to bleed off excess boost pressure), underboost pressure (the sheer power of the actuator's spring to pull the wastegate closed to maintain boost pressure).

    I had this all backasswards at first, but once I understood that the wastegate doesn't open to boost pressure, I got it.

    Thanks to all who gave me input, and I'm sure I'll be back with some other exotic (only to me) problem over the winter.

    Good Skiing.

  10. #10
    Click my Avatar for signature links, Polaris info
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    27,252
    +1
    397

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. MSX 150
    By Keddano in forum MSX/Matrix
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 05-19-2008, 10:40 AM
  2. Help Msx 150
    By riptide5 in forum MSX/Matrix
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-23-2007, 10:05 AM
  3. Wastegate actuator replacement
    By wilson311 in forum Honda How To & FAQs
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-16-2007, 12:18 PM
  4. MSX 150 again!!!!!
    By chris in forum Polaris Open Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-30-2007, 12:14 PM
  5. 2004 MSX 150 problems
    By Rocky Balboa in forum Polaris Open Discussion
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 02-08-2007, 10:13 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •