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  1. #1
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    This MSX 140 is still whipping my butt

    Had it running good, got about 20 minutes out of it. I have spark... I have 20 lb fuel pressure, changed CPS when I got back just for kicks, no difference. So I dived in further... suspecting a stator, got proper AC voltage on 12 pin connector( actually got 9 where I should have had 7, and 6 where I should have had 5 but that seams reasonable)... Ohm test per service manual was correct... here comes the bad part Pins 2 and 11 not open to ground, pins 5 and 8 also not open to ground, according to service manual this is a replace the stator per flow chart... if any pin is not open to ground. Also cranking I am only getting about 16 volts on the red/white ficht circut... So does this sound like the correct plan of action... this machine has been a goose chase of issues... thought I had it whipped when I fixed the pressure regulator.
    Also has anyone tried to pull the flywheel and stator with motor in the ski. Looks like it can be done, slide tank forward a bit, tie ankles to the chain fall and hang upside down and work on it. According to error code 17 which is also showing, could suspect stator or EMM, but disconnecting the 12 pin at the EMM, and getting short to ground on 4 pins... sends me towards the stator... Any opions would be appreciated...this machine is starting to try my patience!!


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Sounds like the stator is physically damaged.

    Follow the stator wire bundle to see if it has been rubbing somewhere and shorting to the engine. If cable looks good, then the stator is suspect.

    Please post photos of you hanging by ankles

  3. #3
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    checked harness

    looks all good from end to end, only part I can't really check is at the motor, but it is in rubber so my guess is stator at this point, smooth with no kinks, no visible damage in wire loom... so have you ever pulled flywheel and swapped a stator with motor still in the ski??

  4. #4
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Smile 2003 MSX 140.... just about ready to yell UNCLE

    Ok, this saga keeps going... got my stator swapped out tonight, back together, went to fire up the machine... no spark...
    So just to recap:
    I had 4 pins going to ground on my original stator, pulled motor, pulled flywheel, bendix chipped and took out my flywheel and stator. I had spark before I changed stator, now no spark with new stator, and new flywheel.
    So back into trouble shooting mode, ohm test 12 pin, all ok, voltage check 12 pin, all ok, check that all pins open to ground, all ok.
    Plugged 12 pin into EMM, stuck red test lead into back of red/white 4 pin Packard, single loopback line. At crank, first hit of the starter 23 volts, continued climb to about 36 as I crank for about 10 seconds... then the slow fall on voltage as charge disipates... exactly what I expect. It just seems like I am chasing everything and getting no where.
    I had the regulator fall off in the tank, fixed that. Changed CPS-- (Bendix whacked it also) Changed water temp sensor, all these were codes I got on code reader. Then code 17 appeared, which got me focused on Stator, and replaced it. This darn thing ran for a day and a half after I purchased it, then I fell into this spiral of chasing stuff. I am sending the EMM off in the morning, just does not seem logical to me that a failed stator gave me spark, a stator that passes all the tests, gives me no spark. I suppose I could have had a failing EMM the whole time, and it was just a pile of other issues, or the EMM was failing and throwing codes... who knows, I just know I want to get to the bottom of this, and I only know one way, rip and tear, test and retest until I find the little Gremlin bastard in this ski. Any advice would be appreciated, maybe a fresh brain, or just some moral support!! Thanks all, this site has been a big help.

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    I am not around here as much as I used to, but moral support we can offer!

    Let us know what DFI says

  6. #6
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    So here I sit, 2 stators, 1 newly rebuilt according to the guy I bought it from, my original out of the ski, just got back from RMStator. Both stators ohm out exactly the same pin for pin. Installed stator is open to ground on all 12 pins, it is putting out the correct voltage+ about .5 volts per service manual. Both stators match wire colors pin for pin, both CPS sensors I have ohm out at 148 on one, 151 on the other,(one is brand new, other is good used) I have had both installed no spark. SO I sent off the EMM, it is on the way back from DFI-runs their test engine no issue. I rigged up a way to pulse the CPS, both drop ohms down to about 60-71 on the pulse test. I will put the EMM back in and hopefully will have spark. Any other ideas?? Sparked before I replaced the stator, original had 4 pins going to ground, voltage was low, but it still sparked. I felt like maybe the replacement stator was suspect, but the newly rebuilt is tit for tat the installed unit in terms of pin out, color code, and ohm readings, I am trying to avoid pulling the motor again, as the installed stator passes all the tests. PS I also put on a brand new flywheel ordered from my Polaris dealer.

  7. #7
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Check the wire harness connectors where they plug into the EMM. Tug on each wire to make sure it is not loose. Look for corrosion, grease/dirt in the pins, etc.

    Also visually examine all the EMM pins for any signs of damage, corrosion, etc.

    Make sure the diagnostic loop back connector is good (single White/Red wire).

  8. #8
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Check the wire harness connectors where they plug into the EMM. Tug on each wire to make sure it is not loose. Look for corrosion, grease/dirt in the pins, etc.

    Also visually examine all the EMM pins for any signs of damage, corrosion, etc.

    Make sure the diagnostic loop back connector is good (single White/Red wire).

    The only deviation I get from service manual is on pins 1 and 12, and 2 and 11
    Service manual says .1-.3 ohm, I am getting .7 on both stators on that pin set. If anyone has an ohm meter handy, verify these ohm readings on the 12 pin. I am having a hard time that both stators would read that much higher than the service manual, and both are supposedly rebuilt, one I know is, other I think is. Voltage readings are in the ball game on installed stator, and all pins open to ground.

    PS have 2 very high end multi-meters, and both give the same result... so I know it is not my meter.
    Last edited by boomanch1967; 08-16-2010 at 10:39 AM. Reason: add information

  9. #9
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    OK my MSX is fixed!! Finally... will post specifics with pictures in the next few days.... thanks to all who helped me!!

  10. #10
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    The final issue was dirty connections to CPS.

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