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  1. #1
    David 1 FAST VE's Avatar
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    Another FZR Clutch Fix Possibility

    Well I have been speaking with LOTS of people trying to get the clutch issue ironed out and came across a modification that may help.

    Josh at Rius Racing sent me a SC drive gear that has been modified and lightened on the water jet.
    He said that by lighting the gear it takes some of the shock load off the clutch and gives it more of a fighting chance for survival.

    After 10 of these done none have come back with a failure. We all know its not a permanent fix but maybe a good band aid to stick on or a very good add on to the permeant fix when it comes out??

    The Mod was under $100 and looks really trick. If I remember he said it is lightened 50 grams or so which is very huge deal seeing as how this gear is part of the overdrive setup that is driving the SC.

    I think we are very very close to a permeant fix coming really soon but maybe this will hold us over and once the clutch and shaft issues are ironed out 100% then we can bring on the 20+ pounds of boost.

    Maybe this could help some of you guys out, and get you on the water??
    I know my sprag experiment didn't go over well but I have a good feeling about this!

    David
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  2. #2
    Bounty Hunter Carlos Thomas's Avatar
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    I am looking forward to a solid solution for the clutch. I hope something comes soon. I am somewhat timid about the upcoming endurance races I have. The first one is 100 miles and I am a bit concerned about running WOT potentially for 100 miles producing 16 lbs of boost. With the 1000cc injectors and cooling and RIVA I/C I hope to be fine.

    I have yet to run my boat that hard for that long.

  3. #3
    FZR N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Thomas View Post
    I am looking forward to a solid solution for the clutch. I hope something comes soon. I am somewhat timid about the upcoming endurance races I have. The first one is 100 miles and I am a bit concerned about running WOT potentially for 100 miles producing 16 lbs of boost. With the 1000cc injectors and cooling and RIVA I/C I hope to be fine.

    I have yet to run my boat that hard for that long.
    +1
    we need too sort out these clutches A.S.A.P and i hope some one does very soon

    once they make a decent clutch these ski's will be bullet proof .....

  4. #4
    David 1 FAST VE's Avatar
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    Yea whomever does come up with one-first is going to make some $$$.

    But from the sound of this modification it is the best chance we have.
    I tested that sprag knowing it had been tested atlas two times before me with the hope my test would be different.

    This think has been tested up to 10 times and works so I have way more hope it will work.
    And hey if it doesn't then Im not out a lot of money and I know for sure when the real fix comes this mod will help things out!

    I know of about 8 people or companies working on clutches. I have really, really high hopes for one of them and feel really good about one of the others.
    I cant say much for the rest as I have very little information but from what I have been told if testing goes well then we might see something in the next month.
    And you all know how testing goes if its bad then we will never hear anything and we will all just keep waiting.

    One of the guys said running 2 BOV was almost mandatory on 16+ lb. of boost and most reading on the car sites seem to back up his reasoning.
    Does anyone have an opinion on this? Most of the car guys are doing it around 10lbs so that might be a place to help us out?

    David

  5. #5
    Duke's Avatar
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    Actually thats a pretty good idea!

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 FAST VE View Post
    One of the guys said running 2 BOV was almost mandatory on 16+ lb. of boost and most reading on the car sites seem to back up his reasoning.
    Does anyone have an opinion on this? Most of the car guys are doing it around 10lbs so that might be a place to help us out?

    David
    I have an opinion but it's only what I've heard but not yet tested. Some people believe the best placement for the BOV is as close to the throttle body as possible. This is because the "pressure wave starts there as the butterfly valve is shut off in a hurry, and not at the supercharger. And of course some people believe the opposite.
    There is no doubt that two BOV's (one as close to the TB and one at the output of the sc'er) will relieve more pressure then just one wherever it is placed.
    I will be running two BOV's on BigPig when it's back together to cover both theories and it won't hurt the system a bit. Other than having more things to go wrong.

    As for the gear been lighten, makes a lot of sense David. For the backyarders out there that want to drill a series of holes to lighten your own wheel, "PLEASE BALANCE THE GEAR WHEEL BEFORE YOU PUT IT BACK IN!!!!!! Or you will induce another set of issues for your setup. Heard this this morning so I'm just relaying what others have said.

    Damn nice looking design David but we won't see it in action inside the motor on a closed course race standing on the shoreline. Still... very innovative, I like it.

    And yes, we won't have to wait too much longer for the new clutch designs to be starting to be released in their beta forms soon. Testing, I have heard, is very promising but as usual it's that bloody tree rat thing again telling me sweet nothings in my ear. Ptttt!!......... it'll be old news in a months time anyway

    Hope this helps others,

    Dean

  7. #7

    clutch

    As for drilling these gears it is nearly impossible they are very hard we waterjet them for 3 reasons precision, does not affect heattreat and it can actually e cut with the jet! We have made precision fixtures and taken away as much as possible without reducing strength. To date we have not had a failure of the gear or the clutch itself. I would also attribute it to running duals as well as you are not pounding on the rev limiter so much in either closed course or offshore. I am not saying this is a complete fix but i will say that anything that takes load off the clutch will help it live and these will always be wear items as all sprags will still wear as the freewheel. On accel or decel these gears need to change rpm at about half the rate of the supercharger roughly 5 times crank speed these gears weight almost as much as a piston thats a huge amount of inertia generated. Any mass that can be removed from a rotating assembly will lower its inertia and overall load on the clutch. We run these on offshore boats as well as closed course and se no reason not to run in closed course. As for running 2 bovs our initial bov testing we used a large tial bov i found that using lighter and lighter spings to get the valve to open sooner and sooner and flow more air blew clutches faster and faster. My best setup bled only enough boost away to lessen the clutch load but didn't dump it all away instantly when the clutch stayed locked or loaded a little bit it provided the longest life. I was able to measure as what pressure the bov dropped of to and tune from their my final setup dumped all but 3 psi so the clutch was loaded but not a huge surge load. am not saying that this is the only way to go just what my testing found. I would still have failure from bouncing off the rev limtor as the rpm change the clutch freewheels and locks back up at such high rpm it it couldnt handle the load.


    Josh

  8. #8
    Duke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh217 View Post
    As for drilling these gears it is nearly impossible they are very hard we waterjet them for 3 reasons precision, does not affect heattreat and it can actually e cut with the jet! We have made precision fixtures and taken away as much as possible without reducing strength. To date we have not had a failure of the gear or the clutch itself. I would also attribute it to running duals as well as you are not pounding on the rev limiter so much in either closed course or offshore. I am not saying this is a complete fix but i will say that anything that takes load off the clutch will help it live and these will always be wear items as all sprags will still wear as the freewheel. On accel or decel these gears need to change rpm at about half the rate of the supercharger roughly 5 times crank speed these gears weight almost as much as a piston thats a huge amount of inertia generated. Any mass that can be removed from a rotating assembly will lower its inertia and overall load on the clutch. We run these on offshore boats as well as closed course and se no reason not to run in closed course. As for running 2 bovs our initial bov testing we used a large tial bov i found that using lighter and lighter spings to get the valve to open sooner and sooner and flow more air blew clutches faster and faster. My best setup bled only enough boost away to lessen the clutch load but didn't dump it all away instantly when the clutch stayed locked or loaded a little bit it provided the longest life. I was able to measure as what pressure the bov dropped of to and tune from their my final setup dumped all but 3 psi so the clutch was loaded but not a huge surge load. am not saying that this is the only way to go just what my testing found. I would still have failure from bouncing off the rev limtor as the rpm change the clutch freewheels and locks back up at such high rpm it it couldnt handle the load.


    Josh
    Thanks for sharing the great info Josh!!

  9. #9
    Vern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    Thanks for sharing the great info Josh!!
    +1. This seems to relate to the two main arguments on BOVs on 4-tecs too ... relieve ALL pressure and the SC may freewheel way more, and wear the clutch quicker than if there is no BOV at all. It makes sense to dump some pressure, but not all ... keeping the pressure drop and freewheeling to a minimum by keeping some back pressure versus dumping all pressure. Very interesting info ...

  10. #10
    mjh3ides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 FAST VE View Post
    Well I have been speaking with LOTS of people trying to get the clutch issue ironed out and came across a modification that may help.

    Josh at Rius Racing sent me a SC drive gear that has been modified and lightened on the water jet.
    He said that by lighting the gear it takes some of the shock load off the clutch and gives it more of a fighting chance for survival.

    After 10 of these done none have come back with a failure. We all know its not a permanent fix but maybe a good band aid to stick on or a very good add on to the permeant fix when it comes out??

    The Mod was under $100 and looks really trick. If I remember he said it is lightened 50 grams or so which is very huge deal seeing as how this gear is part of the overdrive setup that is driving the SC.

    I think we are very very close to a permeant fix coming really soon but maybe this will hold us over and once the clutch and shaft issues are ironed out 100% then we can bring on the 20+ pounds of boost.

    Maybe this could help some of you guys out, and get you on the water??
    I know my sprag experiment didn't go over well but I have a good feeling about this!

    David
    Thanks for posting this. Seems like a good idea to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by josh217 View Post
    As for drilling these gears it is nearly impossible they are very hard we waterjet them for 3 reasons precision, does not affect heattreat and it can actually e cut with the jet! We have made precision fixtures and taken away as much as possible without reducing strength. To date we have not had a failure of the gear or the clutch itself. I would also attribute it to running duals as well as you are not pounding on the rev limiter so much in either closed course or offshore. I am not saying this is a complete fix but i will say that anything that takes load off the clutch will help it live and these will always be wear items as all sprags will still wear as the freewheel. On accel or decel these gears need to change rpm at about half the rate of the supercharger roughly 5 times crank speed these gears weight almost as much as a piston thats a huge amount of inertia generated. Any mass that can be removed from a rotating assembly will lower its inertia and overall load on the clutch. We run these on offshore boats as well as closed course and se no reason not to run in closed course. As for running 2 bovs our initial bov testing we used a large tial bov i found that using lighter and lighter spings to get the valve to open sooner and sooner and flow more air blew clutches faster and faster. My best setup bled only enough boost away to lessen the clutch load but didn't dump it all away instantly when the clutch stayed locked or loaded a little bit it provided the longest life. I was able to measure as what pressure the bov dropped of to and tune from their my final setup dumped all but 3 psi so the clutch was loaded but not a huge surge load. am not saying that this is the only way to go just what my testing found. I would still have failure from bouncing off the rev limtor as the rpm change the clutch freewheels and locks back up at such high rpm it it couldnt handle the load.


    Josh
    I just want to make sure I'm looking at the right part...#23 in the diagram??? Assuming it is, are the thrust washers easily removed from the gear or they pressed in?...because I would like to replace the collar set while it's apart. Also, what is you turn-around time for this work?
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