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  1. #1

    Newbie - Low compression on Geneis i DI 1200

    Just joined the Hulk. My 2003 Genesis i 1200 DI was running great for almost 2 years with an SBT replacement engine and then 2 weeks ago was running wide open and just died and wouldn't re-start. used the posts here on the GreenHulk on checking service codes in EMM, Great post. re-set those nothing major, then found the fuel tank pressure regulator in the bottom on fuel tank from reviewing another post, equally great post. Fixed that and it finally starts but runs very rough and smokes. Only ran it for seconds a couple times. Compression check says one cyclinder down to 20 psi, others both at approx 125 psi. Looking for thoughts on whether low fuel pressure could burn one cylinder? and why only one and is it possible that on piston is damaged or rings. What's prospects of success of tearing down just the one cylinder and replacing piston, rings and honing cylnder. Or is this even possible on the 1200 DI. Any other recommendations? This is a great forum. Thanks in advance

  2. #2

    Updates - Engine teardown and next steps

    Since i posted the first message I have removed cylinders and inspected pistons. Looks like mag end piston had a ring failure can't tell if due to fuel pressure regulator failure in fuel tank (found regulator in bottom of fuel tank) from running lean or due to oil supply problem. Other 2 pistons and cylinder look OK but one seems to have small amount of scoring on piston. decided to do cylinder exchange and replace pistons and cylinders.

    Looking for ideas on possible oil delivery problem, how to diagnose before running. saw info in 1999 service manual about check valves on oil input into throttle body. 2003 service manual is silent on these. Does anyone know if they exist on 2003 genesis i 1200 DI??? Tried blowing on oil input lines to throttle body and can't get check valve to release. Need some ideas, any help greatly appreciated.

  3. #3
    ryandi2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    conesus ny!
    welcome to the hulk!

    i dont know much on the DI skis but i would look at your oil lines and make sure you did not loose one.. how do your other pistons look? my best guess would be you not getting enough oil and fuel but we need pictures!

    also look in the link in my signature and do some reading on your Fitch fuel system!

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    near Toronto, Canada
    Welcome to the Hulk

    The oil nipples on the throttle bodies do have check valves (as far as I know), but it takes several PSI for them to release. Use a small air compressor to test them.

    Better yet, remove the throttle body assembly and use some solvent to clean those oil check valves out, just in case one is gummed up. No need to totally take the throttle body assembly apart, just spray some carb cleaner through each nipple. You should see it exiting into the throttle bore.

    Clear photos of the damaged pistons, rings and cylinders might help us tell what cause the original failure.

    Mechanically the red Fuel injected Ficht engines are basically the same as the carb version. Same pistons, cylinders, and crank case. Different cylinder heads, of course.

    Low fuel pressure from a dropped regulator can cause a lean condition, but usually I would expect the engine to be running very rough while riding, and not have full power. Sometimes the electric fuel pump itself weakens just enough to lean out at full power, and you get a classic lean burn piston failure.

    SBT engine - was it still covered by the SBT warranty?

  5. #5

    Many Thanks for reply Photos attached

    ryandi2 and k447 many Thanks for response, BTW my name is Bill, sorry didn't sign previous messages. Attached are photos (hope this works) of all 3 pistons and lower crankcase pictures showing conencting rods and lower case. All oil lines are attached and no sign of leaks around oil pump, filter or inputs to throttle body. No air bubbles either. I tried the air compressor on te throttle body inputs and there is indeed a check valve of some kind that releases and can hear air venting in TB. Cleaned out with carb cleaner but still requires more than mouth pressure to open check valve. So not sure if that could have been stuck or not. opefully photos will help you guys see if this could be caused by lean fuel due to low pressure.

    Plan on starting reassembly this Friday, just a little nervous to test if not sure what caused failure like oil but already fixed the fuel pressure regulator before I tore this down. Would run but obvious problem with the one cylinder and smoked like crazy. Maybe that's enough to say it was getting oil, hey just thought of that. The other 2 cylinders had compression of approx. 120 psi each but decided to go for all new pistons and cylinders. Didn't take photos of cylinders as had to send out for exchange.

    Again Thansk to all, this site has great info and help is tremendous.
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  6. #6
    Guys couple of the photos of the failed piston didn't make it into attacments, see below. Also if you hover over photo with cursor you can see title of photo file which define location mag, center or pto.
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  7. #7
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    near Toronto, Canada
    I can see why you decided to go with replacement cylinders and pistons.

    Was there any signs of oil present on the cylinder walls or pistons below the piston rings, or were they quite dry?

    The piston wash looks reasonable for a Ficht engine, but if the regulator fell off while you were going full tilt, then the engine could have become lean in a hurry, and the pistons heated up.

    When it died, was there any message on the MFI display (if you happened to be looking at it)?

  8. #8
    ryandi2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    conesus ny!
    i notice that there is a bit of discoloration ont he bottom of the conecting rod.. im not sure if thats the camra playing tricks or not.. but i know none of the cranks ive seen have color like that

  9. #9
    Well to answer K447 the SBT warranty, I missed by 2 weeks the 2 year no fault warranty. I wasn't the one operating the ski when problems occured but i was told that the first time it shut down it just shut down and wouldn't restart. Needed to be towed back in. Next day or soon after it ran again as was running about half throttle and shut down with the MFI dispay resetting like a power reset and red light blinking on after. Would no longer start after that. After checking all the fault codes and finally finding the pressure reg in the tank along with low compression this is where i am. When i finallly got this apart there was a light film of oil on the ctr and pto cylinders and a lot less on the mag/stator cylinder, almost dry. As far as discoloration on connecting rods I can't say but color looks uniform like it was machined below transition to lower half.

    Does anyone know a good way to test the oil pump? Also does anyone know a good replacement for the oil feed lines. Can't get a part number and the ones I have seem large for the barbs on the TB. I think they are 1/8 " ID. does that seem correct? It's going back together tomorrow but not sure i will run till i can figure out if oil or fuel pressure caused this failure. also what' s a good engine rebuild break in procedure? Thx again for all your inputs I 'll let you know how this winds up

  10. #10
    Well got the engine back together and checked compression and all 3 cylinders look matched at around 125 -130 psi. First compression gauge I used didn't hold max pressure and read around 100 psi but switched to another one and got the readings mentioned. Still suspicious about oil pump so dismantled and rigged up a device to my hand drill to spin oil pump by attaching to the tang on the pump that inserts into the stator housing. Removed old oil line and found they were empty and in some cases only had some water in them. i think that's condensation and the ski hasn't been run in almost 2 months. Lines look rigid and may have been leaking slowly at barbs. I put some new clear substitute lines wrong size and not sure they are rated for fuel or oil but ran the pump for minutes and saw oil starting to fill in lines . After a few minutes got about 3 inches into all 3 oil lines. Wow this seems really low rate and I had the throttle position cam on the pump open full WOT. Checked overnight and the oil stayed where it was in the lines so oil did not leak out of fittings also checked that bleed screw only bleeds down the input side. I think the brittle oil feed line may have been leaking at the throttle body barbs.
    Have a new issue . Noticed that the fuel pump isn't running and fuel pressure is non existent. Checked Brown wire into pump and it is not being activated by EMM. Made sure pump was OK by grounding the brown wire and pump runs and pressurizes lines. Will the EMM prevent fuel pump activation due to disconnecting so much stuff during engine rebuild. How can I get the EMM to actiivate the fuel pump?? Man this sure is hard without any diagnostic SW.
    Ordered new oil lines that are clear Tygon 1/8 in ID 1/4 in OD. But what about hose clamps. These little spring clips don't seem like they will provide enough closure pressure to ensure oil doesn' leak out.

    I know, a lot of questions but looking for any help/guidance you got. Tx


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