Thread: mike's stage 1 FZR build thread
08-04-2010, 08:46 PM #1
mike's stage 1 FZR build thread
Initial goal and info: My goal is to reach 72.0 on the fzr with stage 1 modifications (I made it to 74.9). I want to open this damn engine up and let her breathe a little. My top speed so far on the fzr is 68.6mph which I have never been able to duplicate but I consistently run in the low 68’s. Mods include…. Riva power filter, manifold upgrade, ff exhaust, hks bov, R&D grate, ppk, and mmpa.
Tiny Tach: Took the STOCK ski out today with the Tiny Tach commercial version installed and made some runs. Max rpm was 7769 (I assume I came unhooked at WOT) On the first WOT run after letting the ski warm up for a good 5 minutes I was right around 7740+- 10rpm. After an hour of beating the ski and doing countless WOT runs the rpms were down to 7710+- 10rpm. This slight loss of rpm is from heatsoak. Air temp and water were both 80 and the air was “sticky.” The TT takes 30 seconds to install, just wrap the red wire around the #1 spark coil and connect the white ground to any nearby bolt. I routed the gauge up behind the bars and connected to my gps mount with zip ties. My only complaint with the TT is that it updates a little slow, it takes slightly under a second to update but there are other tachs, such as the PET tach, that update much quicker. Since I’m only going stage 1 for now, the TT will be fine.
Riva Power Filter: Very easy to install, I installed the K&N filter element outside of the ski even though the directions say to put the tube on first then the filter. I highly recommend installing the lord mount and securing it BEFORE you start to tighten the hose clamps otherwise it can be hard to line it up. The K&N filter is held on by one supplied hose clamp but it really doesn’t hold it on too well. I might put a beefier hose clamp on it. It's hard to see in the pic but those two black hoses have been relocated to come out by the fuel tank instead of RIGHT in front of the K&N filter. I zip tied them to the strap that holds the fuel tank in.
Riva FF Exhaust: Again, easy to install. I doubled up on hose clamps on the exhaust because I don’t want it to loosen up and pop off when I am riding in the rough/ wave jumping. The ff exhaust really cleans up the back of the hull; makes it easy to clean/ access. I ran the ski on the hose and the exhaust sounds mint!! Not too loud but you know the ski is kick ass. I haven’t ridden yet so I cannot comment on any drone. I originally had a small leak coming out of the coupler on the waterbox but I fixed it by moving the lower of the two clamps down slightly and then tightening it up. I strongly recommend using a ratchet to tighten hose clamps because you can get it much tighter than a screw drvier.
R&D Grate + PPK: intro…… To remove the stock grate I recommend heating the bolts, they are torqued down pretty tight and it can be hard to get leverage under the ski. I heated each bolt with a hairdryer for ~90seconds. They also have red (271) loctite which can be annoying to remove and they have what seems to be 4200 on the heads of the bolts so water cannot get in. I cleaned out the threads the bolts screw into on the ski, got about 90% of the loctite out. The R&D grate is much beefier than the stock grate, the aluminum is thicker all around so that’s a nice plus.
……install This was a PITA to install. The ppk didn’t fit into the grate all the way so I had to cut about half an inch down on all three protrusions on the ppk. After that I put in some 4200 and pushed in the ppk. I used 4200 on the pieces that fit into the transom. I test fitted the grate and then applied 4200 as needed. I recommend going easy with the 4200 because when the grate is torque down it will really spread out and is annoying to remove. I also used red loctite (271) NOT blue (242) because that’s what the service manual says to use even though Riva/ R&D both say to use blue. Red is stronger but harder to remove. I torque the bolts to 40nm as per directions/ service manual.
R&D Multi-pressure port adaptor: Easy to install but it can be hard to remove the OEM hose from the OEM MAP sensor. Use a flat head to pry it slightly and then pull it off. You DO NOT actually need to cut the bracket like the directions say but it does make it easier to access the hose. After I cut it I ground down all the sharp edges on a stone grinder. The three fittings that come with the mmpa do not screw in all the way so if you can’t get them in fully don’t be alarmed.
...fyi the map sensor is not attached in this pic
Riva HKS BOV: The new hose is significantly stronger than the stock hose so it is a little tough to install. Put it on the SC opening first and then the IC opening. I routed the vac line behind the fuel rail and put one of those hose covers over it (not pictured). Once I have run the ski a few times I bet the hose will go on and off easier.
Manifold upgrade: ok it’s not bad at all. I don’t get why people complain so much about this mod. It is tedious, no question, but it’s not actually difficult to do. I pulled the entire manifold because there is no way you could do it any other way. Just pull the fuel rail/ injectors, electrical connectors, and then the manifold. A really good piece of advice I can give is when you disconnect the fuel line from the fuel rail wrap it in a cloth before you take it off because the fuel in there is pressurized and shot all over me (I even had the gas cap open anticipating this). I was a little surprised at the amount of salt deposits on the throttle body but thankfully no corrosion because it’s all stainless. I did fuck one thing up while doing this mod…… when reinstalling the valve cover brackets I snapped one of the bolts right at the head so the rest of it is stuck in the block. I’ll take it out eventually but I’m not too worried about it.
Rear grab handle disassembly: Yamaha put red loctite on all of these bolts and the salt from 50hr of riding really cooks it together and can be hard to remove. Remove the entire assembly including the aluminum plate in the front. Yamaha uses “Torx” bolts which I don’t understand why they do this. To get them off if u don’t have a a torx set of sockets just use small vice grips and then remove the nut underneath.
In Conclusion: I really don’t have much mechanical experience at all but these mods were extremely simple to do. The best advice I can give someone who is unsure of their abilities is to go out to your ski with directions for the parts you want to install in hand and visually go through them. It REALLY helps. I am also thinking about getting the riva water box and R1 programming. Figures….. I’m addicted….
Took the ski out today with the stock prop. RPMS are up to a consistent 7800 even in 90* heat and 80* water and 400ft elevation. The ski does cavitate out of the hole a bit. I am on the limiter but not too hard. I cant actually feel it but when I watch my TT guage it will go from 7760+ and then suddenly down to 7400 and then back up and so forth. Seems like the soft limiter is shutting down the #1 cylinder. I plan on trying the skat 13/23 on friday. *see below for more prop info*
The bov really does scream, it releases a ton of hot air. If you ride with the seats off like I do sometimes its crazy loud. With the seats on it still sounds good. I put one of those hose cover on the vac line and melted it because it was wedged up against the block.... oh well, it protected the vac line.
Top speed was 69.8 on the gps. Conditions wernt perfect but they were still good. There was a tough crosswind on the lake which kept messing up my speed runs and I am confident that with better conditions I could hit 70.0 on the gps. Ride plate was in its stock from with the spacers. Top speed was achieved with the bow trimmed all the way up. I think that 69.8 is spot on given the conditons and my mods. I was reviewing Jerrys thread and he hit 69.7 with just the powerfillter and manifold upgrade. If you consider that I am also running a grate which can scrub .5mph and then the exhauyst which really doesnt do too much for top end speed, I think I am on target. 72.0 seems doable with some of Jims magic on a vx plate!
There is a drone on the riva ff (yeah like we didnt all know already) but it isnt horrible. Its from 3.5k-5k rpm. I really dont mind it but then again I only road for an hour so I can see how on longer rides it would be annoying.
I am pretty upset with the crappy quality of the riva power filter. The material of the tube itself is very very soft plastic and it actually warps when you install the filter element. I mean hell, for 200$ i should not have problems. I would like to try the JD intake but I ride in the ocean so it isnt for me.
The best gains I saw were from the R&D grate+ ppk. The ski really sticks to the water now. It is by far the best mod I did!
Stock Prop and pitch: the ski was on the rev limiter with the stock prop. Not too hard but there was a noticeable popping sound from the rev limiter kicking in and also I could see my rpms going down on the TT. Top speed was 69.8 and after that I only could get to 69.0 so it might have been a spike. The prop would cavitate slightly from a dead stop, about 2 spins before it hooked up. My buddy has a bone stock 2009 fzr which I would race and I had him by a solid ski length out of the hole and then I would pull away on top end ever so slightly. If I had to rate the stock prop on a scale of 1-10 (10 being perfect) I would give it a 6. Top speed really wasn't impressive with the limiter kicking me down but the acceleration was still very strong.
Skat 13/23: Top speed was 71.3 today with consistent runs at 71. There is absolutely zero cavitation out of the hole. There might be SLIGHTLY too much leading edge but its pretty damn close to perfect. Rpms are down to 7420+/- 10 at WOT (with the engine nice and heat soaked) So by getting the rpms up to 7700 I can see hitting 73. I did a bunch of runs with both seats off and my rpms came up to 7520 +/- 10... that is a 100rpm increase So a little cooling goes a long way! When I raced my buddy today I had him by about the same off the line but on the top end I was much faster. If I had to rate the skat prop I would give it a 8. Very good top end and good take off.
Conclusion: Skat 13/23 hands down wins. Take off has no cavitation and top end is way better. I did measure the skat and its a true 14/22. Once I get the skat dialed in, it should be around 73
Finally got a break in the weather to test out Jim's modified VX plate on my FZR with NO shims. Here's what I think....
I ran 74.9mph (with mods in my sig) @ 7600 rpms. At speeds lower than 45mph, Jim's VX plate handles almost the same as the stock rideplate. At higher speeds, the plate is looser than the stock plate and by this I mean that it keeps the bow of the ski out of the water more so the bow doesn't dig in at high speed when turning. If you pull the ski hard in the turn you can get it to turn like stock, or just trim the nose down and it handles exactly like the stock rideplate. I used NO shims at all and there was a little bounce at anything above 68mph. Any speed under 68mph there was literately no bounce at all. I plan to put 1 shim on each side of the back of the plate to counteract the bouncing. I was too busy smiling to ever look at the speedo to see how accurate it was but I do recall that at WOT it was reading 75mph which is pretty damn close so I'm not going to touch it for now.
I would recommend this plate, it has the same handleing as the stock plate if you trim the bow down and the speed gain speak for itself. I had the bow trimmed 1 up and pulled off 74.9mph on the GPS. I was running consistent 73-74 sitting on the seat. Feel free to ask any questions if you have them. I'm adding this to the speed database and my build thread. Jim's plate was good for 3.6mph in my case. Probably could have squeezed off a tick more because I had half a tank.
I'm planning on a repitch once my rideplate inserts arrive.
SEE BELOW FOR MORE INFO ON MODS
Last edited by mikeFZR; 01-20-2012 at 02:22 PM.
08-04-2010, 09:07 PM #2
Overall this was very straight forward instal, I am very experienced in working on the FZ platform so I didn’t run into any trouble. You will need a large regular screwdriver to pop off the old inserts, a large scraper/ razor to remove excess material, 1fl oz of 5200 FC, and a vacuum to suck everything up.
Ok here we go…
1. Slide the ski back on the trailer and remove the rideplate.
2. Remove the rear grab handle completely (including the metal piece).
3. Remove the exhaust tubes NOT the exhaust outlet.
4. Remove the water box.
5. Using the flat head screwdriver, pop off the glue holding the stock inserts on. It should come off pretty easily. It may be tough to get off if the glue seeped into gaps in the hull when it was applied at the factory.
6. Knock the inserts loose with your hand or small hammer and remove.
7. Using a scraper/ razor, remove the old silicone. Make sure you get it all, you will probably end up scrapping off some of the nanoxcell material but this is fine.
8. 8. Clean with vacuum and then wipe with WATER and dry. DO NOT use any solvent containing alcohol because this inhibits 5200 from curing.
9. Apply 5200 FC to the new inserts liberally and put them into place.
10. Install the rideplate and torque to 17nm (per the service manual) and let set for 24 hours.
I started with a 13/23 (really 13/22) skat swirl 155 for my FZR. I pitched to a 13/20. I'm currently down 250rpms so I hope this does the trick! The most important thing is having a stable jig to hold the prop, if you dont have this than forget about it. You will have a great deal of trouble if the prop slips. I used a 24'' crecent wrench from harbofreight which I got to 25$. The hardest thing about bending was that the blades have a very small crecent shape so it makes pitching all the way to the root tough. But then again, I'm still new to this so I'm sure the pros have more tips on this. Be careful not to just pitch one spot, you will need a nice sweeping curve fro best performance. The blue marks on the blades are 2'' up and then 1.5'' up from the trailing edge and I pitched at 1.5'' because 2'' through the end of the blade lined up with 20 degrees the best. I reinstalled the prop in the wear ring and it fit great with no clearence issues.
Hopefully this helps me pick up the 250 rpms I need, wish me luck! I'll have results later this
Just got back from the water after repitch from 13/23 (true 13/22) to a 13/20. I picked up exactly 200rpms with the seats on I didn't break my top speed though, but thats ok. I ran consistent 72s all day in 85* air and 70* water. I'm now at 7630 with the seats on at WOT and 7710 with the seats off at WOT. I was running 73+ all day with the seats off.
My best gain was that my plate doesn't seem to bounce as much anymore with the added RPMs. It makes sense that more hp (rpm) is lifting the ski more now so the bouncing has subsided a bit. This is probably why guys like Yoyamaha don't say they have much bouncing with the VX plate, it's because they still have the stock prop and are probably touching the limiter.
As for shims, I plan to try 1 on each side on the back and see what that gets me. Thanks for the advice Chad
I also had no weird vibrations or anything from the repitch which mean I (probably) got it right.
I installed 1 shim on each bolt on the back of my Jims modified VX plate and took the ski for a test ride. Conditions were honestly identical to the day I tested my VX plate with no shims so the results are accurate. My rpms were the same @ 7630 and my speed was also the same, if not slightly better. I was running 72 for an hour with 3/4 of a tank with the seats on. To put that in perspective, I usually pick up 1mph with less fuel and then 1.5+ mph with the seats off so that would put me right at my 74.9mph top speed. I was also running 72 all day with no shims so 1 shim on each of the back bolts, in my expiernece, doesnt scrub speed. Handling was better, but its by no means night and day. The ski bounces less for sure but it still wants to launch if you hit a wave right. I'm going on a long ride in the ocean this weekend so I'll post back for ocean results. Also, temp today was 80 and water was 75. Dew point (humidity) was right around 55.
Just a quick update: I've had 1 shim on each back bolt for approx 10 hours now of mainly wavejumping/ enduro racing in the ocean. I took the plate off today to inspect the hull after I received a PM from a forum member asking me to check for any dents in the hull from the shims Jim provided. The hull appears to be holding up just fine. There was a small (and I stress extremely SMALL) half moon shape from the front of the washers indent in the hull. Ok, now before everyone freaks out, it's not even measurable.... that's how small it is. Maybe the thickness of a hair. The rest of the hull where the rideplate lines up was 100% fine. I really do love this modded plate, Jim did an awesome job with it.
Last edited by mikeFZR; 07-25-2011 at 03:29 PM.
08-08-2010, 07:33 AM #3
this is a great thread for inexperienced mechanics like myself, post the numbers etc when you are done so we can see the difference please.
making me consider taking these bits on myself!
08-08-2010, 07:51 AM #4
I really do recomend installing all the parts yourself. It's very easy and you gain so much knowledge of how the ski works and how to fix it.
08-08-2010, 08:19 PM #5
I think your goal of 72 is within reach. Get yourself a VX plate (and send off to Jim) - as usual, his plates are the best bang for the buck mod out there.
08-08-2010, 08:59 PM #6
08-09-2010, 07:32 PM #7
08-14-2010, 08:12 AM #8
08-16-2010, 07:00 AM #9
Went out yesterday and saw similar speeds. I can see hitting 75 mph with stage 1 mods!! I figure I'm leaving 2mph on the table with my rpms being on the low side and some of Jim's magic on a vx plate should be good for another 2 mph which would put me at 75.3
Last edited by mikeFZR; 11-11-2010 at 09:43 AM.
09-13-2010, 07:04 PM #10
Last edited by mikeFZR; 10-23-2010 at 07:10 PM.
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