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  1. #1
    jcc011185's Avatar
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    Ultra 150 PTO cylinder went today all of the sudden

    Hey Guys,

    long time since I've used the forum, but the old trusty ultra 150 has given me 0 problems in over two years and 240 hours on the ski now. Recently though, the rear hull bearing begun to leak and I made an aluminum cover plate for it and siliconed it on to stop the water from leaking without having to disassemble the engine and move it forward to replace the entire bearing assembly. Well, long story short, before I noticed the leaking it was unfortunatly allowed to get bad enough were I had quite a few inches of water in the hull accumulating and though it only bogged the ski just a couple times, apparently the PTO took a good enough shot of water to cause a failure. Rode it last weekend, no problems. the week before is when I temp fixed the bearing leak... My guess is that the water in the PTO worked it's magic last weekend and this weekend just a few hundred feet from the dock on acceleration it suddenly dropped to about 5-6k rpm. I immediatly brought it back to the dock and checked the plugs and sure enough the PTO had grey sludge and was fouled. So I loaded it up, brought the ski home and did a compression test to find that I have about 130psi on each of the two front cylinders, 0 psi on the PTO.

    I went ahead and dissasembled the engine and pulled the PTO jug, looks like the top of piston retaining pin (there are two on top of each other) broke, not sure that it caused the failure of what but it could have just broken in the failure). There is a hole in the side of the piston, and an accompanying indention line in the cylinder wall. ALL the metal filings however did get imbedded into the top of the head and the top of the piston. There was no trace of metal in the sump, or around that bearing on the crank. All has been thoroughly cleaned with fogging oil, and meticulously swabbed to be sure. The wrist pin rings are both fine, as well as the rist pin bearing and the pin itself are just fine.

    Both gaskets top and bottom of the cylinder also appear fine and re-useable.

    No oil lines are loose, I can clear trace the oil all the way down each line, there are no breaks. Nothing seems out of place, and like i said water injestion and possible ring failure is the only thing I could think of.

    SHOULD I go ahead and remove the other two jugs and re-ring the pistons while it's apart?

    What would be the suggested way for a long term fix on this. I'm currently searching for a good used cylinder, head, and piston.

    Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I'm primarily concerned about gaskets and such as well, what ones I can reuse etc. ALL gaskets look like they could be new. This ski was very well taken care of and this is just terrible that this had to happen, but hey 240 hours with 0 trouble at all is a pretty good ski.

    Thank again for the help,
    Jared


  2. #2
    jcc011185's Avatar
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    Just a note I AM replacing the bearing while I've got the engine this far apart, I might as well unbolt it and slide it forward to replace this part which probably caused this whole mess. Anyone know if the clearence will be enough to do this? I do NOT want to pull the engine!

    Jared

  3. #3
    jcc011185's Avatar
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    Also one more quick question.

    After I do replace the cylinder, and get it up and running again... is there a procedure I should follow to relubricate the cylinder walls etc? I mean, obviously I don't want to go out and do WOT right away, but how long should I wait etc? I just want to get it back to where it was, that's all. It's been a terrific ski, such a sad day today

    Jared

  4. #4

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    Are you saying the rear cylinder ingested water through the carb as a result of a substantial leak from the drive shaft bearing leaking water in the hull?

  5. #5

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    My idea is 240hrs is very good and while she is down might as well do all 3. You get a fresh start...I do see what you mean though, the compression is dang good for 240hrs.

  6. #6
    btldigger's Avatar
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    Its time to replace the pistons not just rering. With that much time on them the skirts can begin to get stressed and crack. Thats when they break up and get shoved out the bottom. I would say the water injestion was behinde your failure. You will need to go ahead and pull the engine to do the top end and replace the bearing carrier. It isnt a big deal to pull it.

  7. #7
    jcc011185's Avatar
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    I can pull the engine, I just remember reading about just pushing it forward with the manifolds removed gives enough clearence to replace the bearing. I don't have a lift to take it out, woudl MUCH rather not take it out, disconnect any oil/fuel lines. Getting a bit beyond my comfort zone there... But, while everything is apart, I guess it would be feasible to pull the other two cylinders, and just replace all the pistons, with new rings etc. I can't afford to do too much, just trying to get it back to where it was. Very good compression on the ski, no problems no need to rework the wheel but it does have it's hours.

    What about these piston kits, they are cheap enough that I could afford it, definitely can't afford the weisco kit right now, and I don't want to leave it apart all winter.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kawas...item1c12c33d60

    They have a slightly cheaper one that is not coated, and then a more expensive one. Ideally for me, I'd be find just buying a used cylinder, used piston off of a good running low hour ski and ensure all factory OEM parts to replace it and put it right back where it was, with just less hours on the PTO cylinder no? Money is tight, the only reason I can't afford to do too much necessary or not it WOULD be back on the water with just the replacement PTO and it woudl be the cheaper solution, though future problems might come up, I can't help getting by the feeling that SOMETHING I did (like letting the water bog the ski from the hull leak) has caused this. This has been a great, well taken care of ski, always with a strong engine that ran, well, as my signature said, 68.8 top 68 any day all the way up until the failure.

    I'd like to get it back on the water while it is still in season and do a proper winterization.


    Should I get a "new" and not a used piston, what is the "start-up phaze" I'm reading about, what do I need to do and how long before WOT?

    All new to me, I didn't think I would have had the skill-set to pull the jug, but now that that's behind me it was very easy to do, and I feel that it will be just as easy for me to replace that cylinder, and possibly throw new pistons in the front two.

    Jared

  8. #8
    jcc011185's Avatar
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    If I:

    Pull the other two cylinders, throroughly inspect the other pistins and find no cracks, or damage of any kind to the cylinder walls, piston or head, then is it safe to say I'm ok on the other two and can put them back together and focus on my immediate problem? Upon looking at the other two through the exhaust ports, and given the compression, I mean knock on wood one would think they were still ok. A complete WSM piston kit is like $360, then combine that with the cost of the new jug and head, is more then I can afford to spend at the moment, which would mean that it would be down all winter open and exposed.

    In regards to the head gasket and cylinder gasket. I know from the PTO that I pulled, both gaskets look fine and reusable would this be an ok assumption? Because they are $12.80 and $9.80 a piece. The wrist pin bearing also seems to be in excellent shape.

    Jared

  9. #9
    I would pull the motor out and do the bearing holder(according to what I have read) You can have a motor out in less than an hour. As for the ski if it has 240 hours it is due a rebuild if it has never been built. I have 2 good pistons,2 wristpins, 2 wristpin bearings, 1 good head if you decide to just fix the one cylinder. I sold both good jugs last week. This motor is so easy to pull it is ridiculous though. It took me about 4 hours to clean my hull out, swap over reeds, intake manifold, exhaust, stator, stator housing etc. to my new motor, install it, rejet the carbs, and have it running on the hose. I can have it out in about 40 minutes now that I know what/where everything is.

    I'll sell a good piston, wristpin, bearing, head for 55$ shipped if interested. OR I will trade for a pump rebuild kit, good prop(oem or aftermarket), or triple pisser kit.

  10. #10
    jcc011185's Avatar
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    Wow I happen to have a like new OEM prop sitting in a box in my garage! I was going to have it blue printed to my pump, but I've even tried the solas and nothing seemed to ever outperform the prop that came on it. Perhaps the other owner had the pump blueprinted and it repitched. I know the one I have on the shelf is a factory OEM spec prop. Ok I'll take the good piston, wristpin, bearing, and head for the trade of the prop if interested. I can't see me ever doing anything with it, like said I've even tried the recommened solas one and it wasn't as good as what I have.

    So that means I just need to get a used freshly honed jug, inspect the other two cylinders to make sure that they are ok and put her back together.

    Let me know how we can work out the trade if interested. I wish you also had the jug

    Jared

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