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Thread: msx 140 issue

  1. #1
    retro's Avatar
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    msx 140 issue

    I'm working on a msx 140 that won't start on it's own unless I prime it with a little fuel. Just want to make sure I'm on the right track. After going through all troubleshooting I've concluded something is wrong with the stator or flywheel.

    Swapped with known good emm-
    Swapped with known good cps
    Unplugged tps
    Fuel pressure good
    stator ohms out ok but a touch on the high side as I have seen is common. Vac while cranking is good on all stator pins, 2 volts higher but again have seen this before.
    Used podiag with no trouble codes and performed static test on fuel pump an injectors.
    My injector voltage is only 17vdc and I know that's why it's not starting. Again it will fire and run if I prime it with a little fuel and will run until I stop it. It will run at close to 4000 rpm without touching the throttle with the tps unplugged. When it is running the injector voltage will stay at around 44 vdc. I am going to pull the the flywheel and see if I can see anything wrong. Anybody chime if you think I'm on the right track. I have a feeling the flywheel is damaged giving incorrect readings as to cause the high idle when it starts, and low injector voltage when it doesn't.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    With TPS connected and a good EMM installed, what does it do?
    Start without priming and idle properly?

    Given what you have described, sounds like pulling the flywheel for a look-see is a good idea.

  3. #3
    retro's Avatar
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    With tps connected and good emm installed still will not start unless primed. Injector voltage is 17 Volts while cranking.

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro View Post
    With tps connected and good emm installed still will not start unless primed.

    Injector voltage is 17 Volts while cranking.
    Let us know what you find when you remove the flywheel.

    You may need to remove the stator to fully inspect it. Sometimes there is damage down low where it is hard to see.

  5. #5

    msx won't fire

    when it is running do you hit max normal rpm under load?

  6. #6
    retro's Avatar
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    I'm not able to keep it running long enough to find out. When primed it will rev strait up to 4k. I'm not running it for more than about 5-10 seconds at a time to prevent any damage. I plan on pulling the flywheel and have a look at the stator in the next couple of days.

  7. #7
    GGG's Avatar
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    It could just be me but the reving to 4k and the low injector voltage dont seem to be related.
    Usually high idle is from running very lean. vacuum leak, bad fuel pump ect.
    and the low injector voltage is usually either the emm which you canceled out or magnito, flywheel problems
    one thing I have noticed with Ficht. anything is possible

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro View Post
    I'm not able to keep it running long enough to find out.

    When primed it will rev strait up to 4k.

    I'm not running it for more than about 5-10 seconds at a time...
    Unlike carburetor engines, the Ficht throttle plates have holes through them to allow a lot of air flow even when the throttle plates are in the 'closed' position.

    When you manually prime with fuel, the engine starts up with lots of fuel and the air to burn it. Hence the high RPM even with the throttle closed. As soon as the fuel from the priming is burned off the engine will stop unless the normal fuel injection is working.

    If the injector voltage is high enough to allow the injectors to actually fire (over 20 volts DC on White/Red wires) then the RPM should drop to a stable 1150 RPM idle.

    If the injector voltage remains low despite the engine starting and revving up, then the injectors will never operate and the engine will shut down as soon as the priming fuel is consumed.

  9. #9
    GGG's Avatar
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    ah good point!

  10. #10
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    I think your stator is bad.

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