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  1. #1
    Matrix 4-Tec spannerspencer's Avatar
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    I really need some help! Msx 150 running problems > display shows 'check engine'



    im desperate for any help!

    here is a run threw of my day out today.

    ive just bought a msx 150 (53hrs)

    its got a problem where by it wont re-start after use (if i launch it, i can start and stop it in the water no problem, but once ridden, it wont re-start


    • one of the problem is that i have to start it in reverse- as even in reverse it idles at 3400rpm ish very lumpy, spikeing up to the 3400 rev limit - does not settle down, it i sellect neutral, the revs/boost soar up to the max!
    i took it to the launch ramp, and started it up in the water on the trailer, in reverse, shortly after the revs settled themself and it idles about 1500rpm

    i stoped the engine, restarted, all seemed ok.....

    i jumped on, fired up, as i set off check engine then flashed at me, then does out....

    i warm the engine up,

    after throttle up it seems to find it hard to find idle, (revs drop off, then flick up)

    when i floor it, it goes to 5900 rpm (just over half on boost gauge)

    -at this point i think i can possibly hear a 'hisss' whilst on boost, so i slide the seat back whilst i floor it, (wonder if its leaking pressure)? initial thoughts are dumpvalve?

    at this point i try to re-latch the seat, the lanyard pops out, and it stalls and wont re-start in the water.

    i notice at this point that the engine crank over speed is slower!?

    i get it on the trailer, out of the water. i start it, and the crank over speed seemed to increase progressively as it fired up, it went back to insane idle speeds (3400 in reverse, and near max rpm in neautral.

    so....

    i left the seat off, i put it back in the water, on the trailer and started it up (it started in the water) and the revs settled, but abit lumpy.

    took it back out of the water, and it has same wild idle problem


    • ive checked the volts on the battery (12.8 before start up) - (10.8 on cranking) - (14v on running) have not checked actually in the water.
    • if i wobble the pipe going to the ETB, the ETB seems move where the 4 bolts bolt to the inlet manifold (the inlet manifold dosent move, just the ETB
    could i have an air leak bellow the ETB, would this cause the high idle? is this where the hisss could come from when on boost.?

    every time i now start engine it flashes 'check engine

    im totaly stuck, any help please!!!!


  2. #2
    Kosh's Avatar
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    All Sounds normal to me

    First up the revving to the limiter is a known 'fault', always start it in reverse. It will probably settle down over time as the ECU does some learning.

    If your Idle is erratic (and you have no air leaks)(TB is able to wobble a little) it may your exhaust gas sensor (on top of the exhaust manifold) these die if the craft was rolled and splashed with water. Unplug the connector, it will revert to an internal program, not ideal to leave like this just a test as idle quality is still compromised.

    Once you have sorted the problems the starting should improve as the ECU re learns.
    If after all your looking testing and pulling hair you still can't nut this out I would suggest to try another ECU or re flash yours. Some times it seems they are just happy to stay the way they are.

    The red light flashing 10 times or so after start up is normal.

    Have fun, it is fixable

  3. #3
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Hulk

    Have a look through my signature links. Won't answer every question, but will get you started

  4. #4
    Matrix 4-Tec spannerspencer's Avatar
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    ok, i really am becoming stumped. ive just taken the spark plugs out and they are jet black! what is causing this!?
    is the lamda (exhaust) sensor shot?

    is this making it idle wild?

    is the temp sender shot!???

    is this causing it to not start in the water?
    i love this ski, i just want to nail the electronics!

  5. #5
    jackofalltrades's Avatar
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    Jet black plugs indicates bad combustion which could be for several reasons to include low compression, bad timing, too much fuel etc. High idle would indicate a lean condition but since your plugs are black we can pretty much rule that out IMO. I would be interested as to how much compression you have on each cylinder. After that, I would be looking hard at the exhaust gas sensor like Kosh said and then if that is not the cause I would try to find a ECU you could slave in there to see if that cures the problem. The basic diagnostics are key so you need to ensure you have a mechanically sound engine to start with.

  6. #6
    Matrix 4-Tec spannerspencer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofalltrades View Post
    Jet black plugs indicates bad combustion which could be for several reasons to include low compression, bad timing, too much fuel etc. High idle would indicate a lean condition but since your plugs are black we can pretty much rule that out IMO. I would be interested as to how much compression you have on each cylinder. After that, I would be looking hard at the exhaust gas sensor like Kosh said and then if that is not the cause I would try to find a ECU you could slave in there to see if that cures the problem. The basic diagnostics are key so you need to ensure you have a mechanically sound engine to start with.
    ive got somthing close to 120psi on both cylinders, ive changed the plugs,

    one thing i did notice, is that i was a little low on oil.

    im going to do some tests on it tomorrow, i think i msy need my ecu reflashed by desperado. hmm

  7. #7
    jackofalltrades's Avatar
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    Your compression should be 140 +/- 14 PSI. Take a look at this thread for proper compression test procedures and see what you get.

    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/show...hlight=msx+150

  8. #8
    Matrix 4-Tec spannerspencer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofalltrades View Post
    Your compression should be 140 +/- 14 PSI. Take a look at this thread for proper compression test procedures and see what you get.

    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/show...hlight=msx+150
    ok, perhaps abit concerned now, i followed the test procedure, and ive got 105-110psi on the back cylinder and 110-115 on the front cylinder, does this confirm cylinder coating failure?

  9. #9
    Matrix 4-Tec spannerspencer's Avatar
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    after doing an oil check as well, the msx 150 was 2.5L low of oil!! it took that to get it near the minimum!....

  10. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spannerspencer View Post
    after doing an oil check as well, the msx 150 was 2.5L low of oil!! it took that to get it near the minimum!....
    Was it being ridden with that low oil level?

    You sure you checked the oil level using the correct procedure for the Weber engine?
    Just checking... Too much oil is also not good in these engines.

    If you pour a teaspoon of oil into each cylinder (crank it first without spark plugs or tester to spread the oil around, then check compression), do the compression readings increase? Are you sure your compression gauge is accurate?

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