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  1. #1

    traction control feature

    Someone correct me if im wrong but it looks like we need a speedometer input in order to use the traction control on the vipec. Would work great for cars but not boats.
    We need a simple adjustable time delay to make this work on watercraft...I dont see where it exists.


  2. #2
    GP1800's Avatar
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    Using the stock paddle wheel will not work it is not consistent enough to work properly. However a GPS signal would work I see that the Motec guys are already using a garmin setup http://www.motec.com.au/gpsg1/gpsg1overview/ I would bet that the Vipec software is capable of using a GPS signal.

  3. #3
    fx160's Avatar
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    on the motec it is not traction control that we use (even though that is the effect we are after)
    it s launch control
    it's done by adjusting the the throttle position with timers

    kev

  4. #4
    GP1800's Avatar
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    Launch control and traction control have different purposes. Launch control is designed to reduce power under hard acceleration to prevent or limit prop spin. This is a very effective setup for WOT drag racing. However it can cause slow throttle response once the boat is up to speed and the throttle is closed quickly and reopened. Like riding in chop or hitting a wake and rolling off the throttle. This is because the timer delays slowing the reopening of the throttle plate. If you are using launch control I would suggest that you set it up so it can be activated as needed.

    Traction Control on the other hand can be setup to limit prop spin based off of speed vs. rpm. I am going to use generic numbers here they have no meaning other than examples.
    Say at 50mph your boat runs 5000rpm and at 50% throttle (amount at handle bars) then you hit some chop and the pump unloads and rpm increases to say 6000rpm. The traction control will activate when is sees that the rpm or speed does not match the 50% throttle you are inputting. So the ECU will close the throttle plate to correct the rpm vs. speed. This allows you to hold a set throttle position and run through chop and the ECU will operate the throttle blade and limit rpm based off speed. Once rpm matches speed the ECU will reopen the throttle to the 50% you are asking for.

    Sorry if this is confusing but once some questions are asked and other chime in I think it will clear up.

  5. #5
    This may be one of the biggest differences in Vipec and Motec, many features are similar, but Vipec not having a timed launch control feature, and only a traction control, makes a day and night difference between the two.
    Anyone with software skills to create a true launch control for the vipec?

  6. #6
    WATER WOODY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rossnemo View Post
    This may be one of the biggest differences in Vipec and Motec, many features are similar, but Vipec not having a timed launch control feature, and only a traction control, makes a day and night difference between the two.
    Anyone with software skills to create a true launch control for the vipec?
    Good idea Ross. This will be the only thing for your Monster so far that will help keep all them ponies under control. Also, ALOT easier on the clutch!

  7. #7
    GP1800's Avatar
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    How about boost control. This has a few advantages that crosses over to the rec rider who doesn't need 16+ lbs of boost all the time. The BOV can be replaced with a BOV / Bypass combo valve or separate units depending on your set up. The Vipec has up three boost control maps that can be set. Just an idea map 1 can be set with no boost control. Map 2 could be set a launch control to limit boost to X psi until the engine reaches a set rpm and then goes to full boost. Map 3 could be set to limit max boost so you could set it to like 6 lbs max when cruising and save fuel. This setup is basically an external waste gate that will dump boost instead of exhaust. http://www.vi-pec.com/techdata/ExternalWastegate.pdf

  8. #8
    fx160's Avatar
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    i realy don't think you could set up traction control to work on a ski
    as they drive by thrust so the revs should always be higher than the speed when accelerating
    if you set up launch control properly you don't even feel it working
    even in waves
    if you set up to much lag time then it can become a pain in the arse when riding through heavy chop or waves


    kev

    Quote Originally Posted by GP1800 View Post
    Launch control and traction control have different purposes. Launch control is designed to reduce power under hard acceleration to prevent or limit prop spin. This is a very effective setup for WOT drag racing. However it can cause slow throttle response once the boat is up to speed and the throttle is closed quickly and reopened. Like riding in chop or hitting a wake and rolling off the throttle. This is because the timer delays slowing the reopening of the throttle plate. If you are using launch control I would suggest that you set it up so it can be activated as needed.

    Traction Control on the other hand can be setup to limit prop spin based off of speed vs. rpm. I am going to use generic numbers here they have no meaning other than examples.
    Say at 50mph your boat runs 5000rpm and at 50% throttle (amount at handle bars) then you hit some chop and the pump unloads and rpm increases to say 6000rpm. The traction control will activate when is sees that the rpm or speed does not match the 50% throttle you are inputting. So the ECU will close the throttle plate to correct the rpm vs. speed. This allows you to hold a set throttle position and run through chop and the ECU will operate the throttle blade and limit rpm based off speed. Once rpm matches speed the ECU will reopen the throttle to the 50% you are asking for.

    Sorry if this is confusing but once some questions are asked and other chime in I think it will clear up.

  9. #9

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    Thats true Kev, it's the word "thrust" which hits the nail on the head.
    On the position translation table you can mess with the time and the percentages pretty well much to suit all riding conditions (be it not on the fly).
    Coldspace has come up with his ideal surf/wave jumping map using this feature so he's a good source for brain picking. His secondary map (via a toggle switch) is set for his particular ski (stock wheel and intercooler) so he can run as fuel efficent as possible on the river to get to the surf which is 30 odd minutes away.
    Point is, that hopefully the vipec system will have some way to adjust the timers and the throttle position to suit the "launch control" on holeshot or wave jumping as opposed to the "traction control" when you loose water in the pump due to getting "air".

    My aim is not to brag on about motec verses vipec but to get some comparsions on the different ways people set things up. Kinda what does and doesn't work.


    Rant off. Sorry for the confusing gramma.

  10. #10
    coldspace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GP1800 View Post
    Launch control and traction control have different purposes. Launch control is designed to reduce power under hard acceleration to prevent or limit prop spin. This is a very effective setup for WOT drag racing. However it can cause slow throttle response once the boat is up to speed and the throttle is closed quickly and reopened. Like riding in chop or hitting a wake and rolling off the throttle. This is because the timer delays slowing the reopening of the throttle plate. If you are using launch control I would suggest that you set it up so it can be activated as needed.

    Traction Control on the other hand can be setup to limit prop spin based off of speed vs. rpm. I am going to use generic numbers here they have no meaning other than examples.
    Say at 50mph your boat runs 5000rpm and at 50% throttle (amount at handle bars) then you hit some chop and the pump unloads and rpm increases to say 6000rpm. The traction control will activate when is sees that the rpm or speed does not match the 50% throttle you are inputting. So the ECU will close the throttle plate to correct the rpm vs. speed. This allows you to hold a set throttle position and run through chop and the ECU will operate the throttle blade and limit rpm based off speed. Once rpm matches speed the ECU will reopen the throttle to the 50% you are asking for.

    Sorry if this is confusing but once some questions are asked and other chime in I think it will clear up.
    I do agree with this person and launch control.

    I have found that launch control in my Motec very effective with surf, where you are basically planting the throttle real quick then blasting up a wave,similar to drag racing. It really shines here.

    But,
    For choppy water speed runs you do get power loss for a quick second if you come off 100% throttle to say 80% then back onto 100% as the timer starts again and again so the ski goes through the launch feature again back upto 100% with each heavy chop air time.
    This shows up when you are riding WOT through heavy chop and you have to back the throttle back a little every couple of seconds or so. Can be really annoying especially when you are racing hard through the choppy stuff, so keep it off here.
    If you want to run it in fast choppy stuf then be really mild on it and only in the .2 sec section, otherwise your response time for 100% throttle will suffer.

    So, for fast racing through heavy chop, run no launch control if you are going to be backing your throttle back a little all the time and then planting it, for drag racing or flat water then run it.

    For surf, run separate map with launch control dialed in.
    I need 3 maps with my ski now,

    1:Surf, launch control map.
    2:100% position translation ( no launch control dialed in) for big speed runs out to the bay islands racing mates in the heavy choppy stuff.
    3: Launch control, full power map for drag racing Dean and Richie .

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