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Thread: Virage I timing

  1. #1

    Thumbs up Virage I timing

    Hello,

    My name is Nathan and I own a small mechanical workshop in Australia. I started off just working on cars but I also do a bit of work on ski's as there is no-one else in my area that work on them. I've had a few polaris ski's in lately and have been using this forum to help me.

    The Virage I I've been working on came with a hard start problem. The voltage to the injectors while cranking was 14 volts so I pulled out the stator, it tested out of specs and was very coroded. Replaced the stator and now it starts great(21 volts while cranking). I've been trying to figure out if there is a way to adjust the timing because somtimes when its cranking over it sound like the timing is advanced, but all I can find in here and in the manual is that you need digital wrench, and then all you can do is check it not adjust it. Is this correct? I would hate for the timing to be wrong and and to have any engine damage.

    Thanks in advance for your help, especially k447 who is a legend.


  2. #2
    2&4strokepolaristech's Avatar
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    There is no way for you to change the timing in that machine. As long as your flywheel key is in good shape and flywheel is ok sounds like you have a EMM that needs to be repaired or replaced. Also check the CPS and make sure it OHMS out at 200 ohms or less... This problem that you have is fairly common and for the most part caused from someone overheating the EMM. When you take out you EMM make sure you can see through the cooling passage and also make sure there is no blockage in the rest of the cooling system in the unit. The hose that connects to the EMM comes from the stator housing and the sometimes get sand/salt/silt built up in them. This will also stop the stator from getting cooled as well.

    Hope this helps

    Jay

  3. #3
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Good to see you on here Jay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRIFTER View Post
    because somtimes when its cranking over it sound like the timing is advanced,
    Pre-ignition ?

    Other than what Jay suggested.

    Make sure you have the correct spark plugs/heat range. Are you using the correct fuel octane rating ?
    Excessive engine temp could cause pre-ignition.
    Possibly a lean mixture caused by leaking seals or gaskets

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    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRIFTER View Post
    ...Virage i ... sometimes when its cranking over it sounds like the timing is advanced...
    What do you mean by that?

    If it is backfiring or only occasionally firing correctly while cranking, that is often a sign that the EMM needs repair. Otherwise it is often the stator, flywheel, or CPS that is damaged.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    What do you mean by that?

    If it is backfiring or only occasionally firing correctly while cranking, that is often a sign that the EMM needs repair. Otherwise it is often the stator, flywheel, or CPS that is damaged.
    It's not back firing, most of the time the engine turns over for a second then fires up. but sometimes the engine slows while cranking once or twice and then fires up. it sounds like there is to much timing advance and i've read so many threads on carby models that say if you change the stator that you need to check timing, I just wanted to make sure it couldn't be changed. I'll check the coil voltages and the spark quality and go from there.

  7. #7
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRIFTER View Post
    ...most of the time the engine turns over for a second then fires up. but sometimes the engine slows while cranking once or twice and then fires up.

    ...I've read so many threads on carby models that say if you change the stator that you need to check timing, I just wanted to make sure it couldn't be changed.

    I'll check the coil voltages and the spark quality and go from there.
    The timing adjustment when a stator is changed on a carb engine is typically only a few degrees. Not enough to affect cranking or starting.

    On a Ficht engine the timing is not adjustable in any way. If the woodruff key has sheared and the flywheel spun on the crank snout then of course the timing would be way off.

    You can check the timing if you want to be sure. On a Ficht engine you can do a static timing check with the MAG piston at TDC (remove the injector to insert your dial gauge, or use the method outlined in the service manual) and look down the CPS sensor hole to see the flywheel timing marks, or you can put some timing marks on the PTO coupler (MAG at TDC) and use a timing light.

    Slow cranking -> I would be looking at the starter, the heavy battery cables, and the solenoid (not in that order). Pull the engine ground off and really clean it up. Clean metal on the block against clean metal on the ground cable, with a clean bolt going into clean threads in the bolt hole. Eyeball the cable itself for corrosion or looseness on the ends.

    Same with both heavy red cables. Actually remove and clean both ends of both cables.

    If the original starter solenoid with a metal mounting plate is still in place, it may need replacing. The metal backed solenoids, especially the original version with a black plastic body, are known to rust internally and eventually fail. More details can be found through my signature links.



    And sometimes it really is the starter motor. If everything else checks out, and you are sure the battery itself is actually healthy and strong (not just a well charged but internally weakened battery), then the starter motor may need removal and rebuild or replacement.

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