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  1. #1

    02 1200 txi starting problems

    i have bought a 02 1200 txi
    with the understanding it had a new motor. but a bad starter.
    got it home replaced the starter and placed a new battery in it.
    started it up and it ran fine for about 10 mins.
    hooked it up and put it in the water started it up ran great for a few sec then died. have not been able to get it to start after that.
    it tries to fire and start but will not keep running does not back fire or at least not yet.

    it turns over, has good spark, good compresion, good volts 11.2 to 12.5
    i'm getting no code on the display timming is right fuel pressure is 28 to 30 psi
    anyone with any ideals? about ready to part this thing out.

    mrmako


  2. #2
    jackofalltrades's Avatar
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    Questions before we get started: When you ran the engine for 10 minutes as you stated above was this out of the water?? Is it carbs or fuel injected? Where are you measuring the voltage from that you stated above? The only real difference from being in the water versus out of the water is the load on the engine and water circulating through the cooling system.

  3. #3
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmako View Post
    i have bought a 02 1200 txi
    with the understanding it had a new motor. but a bad starter.

    got it home replaced the starter and placed a new battery in it.

    started it up and it ran fine for about 10 mins.

    hooked it up and put it in the water started it up ran great for a few sec then died.

    have not been able to get it to start after that.
    it tries to fire and start but will not keep running does not back fire or at least not yet.

    it turns over, has good spark, good compression, good volts 11.2 to 12.5
    i'm getting no code on the display
    timing is right
    fuel pressure is 28 to 30 psi
    anyone with any ideals? about ready to part this thing out.

    mrmako
    Welcome to the Hulk

    When you ran it for ten minutes, was this with a garden hose connected for cooling? If yes, where was the hose connected?

    Measure the voltage on the White/Red wires, without unplugging any fuel injectors. It should read over 20 volts while cranking.

    Click on my signature links, then find the Ficht engine section. Read up on how to make a simple LED test light for the Ficht EMM, and how to use it. Hook it up and read out the EMM service codes. Tell us what you find.

  4. #4
    hey there
    and thanks for the reply post
    i started out of the water with a water hose at the connection on the top rear of the engine.
    checked voltage at battery had 12.5 before starting and dropped to 11.2 while tring to start
    i now have seen in other post were to check the voltage and as soon as i return home i will check it at those locations

  5. #5
    hey there k447
    i will do just that, i'm currently at work and out of town but i will find out what the voltage is
    at those locations as soon as i return
    thank you for your help

  6. #6
    sorry its fitch fuel inject

  7. #7
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmako View Post
    ...I started out of the water with a water hose at the connection on the top rear of the engine...
    Well, 10 minutes is an awfully long time to run one of these machines on the garden hose.

    The normal upper limit for run time on the garden hose is two minutes, and most of us prefer to keep it to under one minute.

    There are several issues. The first is that the engine does not receive proper cooling via the reverse flush connection on the water manifold. Often the front of the engine gets much less water than the rear cylinder does. In some cases, depending on the water flow rate from the garden hose among other things, the front cylinder might get almost no actual water flow.

    BTW, make sure the thermostat is in place and functioning. These Ficht engines require a working thermostat and pressure bypass plunger valve. If the thermostat (or pressure bypass valve) is stuck open or missing, then the reverse flush connection provides almost no water flow through the engine, unless the exit hose from the thermostat is clamped off.

    The next problem with extended run time on the garden hose is that the drive shaft seals inside the through-hull bearing (which sits right behind the engine coupler) and the shaft seals inside the jet pump (the stub shaft seals) are cooled only when the hull is actually floating in water. When running on the trailer, these seals get no cooling and can overheat. When that happens the sealing lips melt and no longer provide a proper seal.

    Once the seals become damaged then water can work past the damaged seals when you are riding. Water trapped inside the bearings then causes the steel bearings to rust and eventually fail. Since the drive line runs at 6000+ RPM when you are riding, even a small amount of rust causes these bearings to die fairly quickly.

    The third issue is that the Ficht EMM module is also cooled by water from the jet pump pressure feed when the hull is floating in water. The cooling feed for the EMM comes from the opposite end of the cooling system from where the reverse flush connection is. That means that there will be very little water pressure to feed the EMM cooling circuit, even if the reverse flush water flow was sufficient to cool the engine itself. And the EMM is downstream from the stator cover water jacket, which means it needs some real pressure to actually have water flowing through the EMM to cool it.

    My suspicion is that you may have cooked the EMM due to no water cooling. The EMM trouble codes might provide a clue. Code 25 is the EMM overheat code. That said, sometimes the EMM can be cooked and for some reason doesn't log a service code.

    Also check compression on all three cylinders, just to be sure the MAG cylinder hasn't been damaged from overheating. All cylinders should be within 5% from highest to lowest readings. Check with all spark plugs out, throttle held wide open.

  8. #8
    jackofalltrades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Well, 10 minutes is an awfully long time to run one of these machines on the garden hose.
    Thats what I was getting at. Hope it didnt do too much damage........

  9. #9
    I was not aware of this! when i return i will be checking into the cooling issue, I had a honda aquatrax and never had any issues running it on a hose for those times. although common sense should have prevaled with the shaft seal and bearing(brain fart on my behalf) i am very suprised to hear that the emm would be cooled by water. goes to show you learn something new every day.
    when i checked the compression i had #1 119 #2 117 #3 119 full open throttle all plugs removed
    thanks for your help

  10. #10
    jackofalltrades's Avatar
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    Dont feel bad, I ran my ski without water also when I first got it. Like you I just didnt know but I got lucky and didnt damage anything. I ran mine for about 2 minutes but that was from a cold engine.

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