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  1. #1

    Carbon Ring Wear?? - ugh...what wear??

    So I get my carbon ring out and i dont hardly see any wear at all....i mean, nothing remarkable anyway. So my questions is - while considering how/where these things are mounted - what in the hell kind of wear am I looking to find?? It seems to be a floating piece anyway since the driveshaft is hung by the crank shaft and the impeller, while this carbon ring is "floating" inside the boot. So, why the hell am I taking this thing out for inspection????? Am i having a brain fart or what???


  2. #2
    Moderator Snoman's Avatar
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    You can get grooves in it from debris,sand or mud or uneven wear if your engine is out of line..I have yet to hear of a tolerance for the ring to actually be conciderd out of spec..I can measure a new on if you want to see were yours stands against a new on...How old is this seal??How many hours and what kind of riding do you do with your ski??

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoman View Post
    You can get grooves in it from debris,sand or mud or uneven wear if your engine is out of line..I have yet to hear of a tolerance for the ring to actually be conciderd out of spec..I can measure a new on if you want to see were yours stands against a new on...How old is this seal??How many hours and what kind of riding do you do with your ski??
    Well its the original carbon seal from '05. Its been fresh water only (i bought it with 6.8hrs on it) and It gets mostly high speed/RPM riding (flat/light chop water).
    This ring now has 160hrs on it.
    The only thing ive noticed immediately is some minor chipping on the rearward inner edge. Inner diameter appears very normal with naked eye.
    Why in the world would this thing get changed every year or two by some guys?

    Am I correct that this is strictly a floating piece?

    And I dont think replacing this will cure my symptoms:
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/sea-...peed-rpms.html

  4. #4
    Moderator Snoman's Avatar
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    It could be a combination of both,the carbon ring and accordian boot..With it being a 05,having 160 hours on it and still being original i would highly recommend replacing the whole carbon seal/accordian boot assembly...And no its not just a floating peice..it is also a wear item..the carbon seal wears against the hat..you may have noticed a black line on the bottom of your hull were the carbon seal is located...Some people like myself replace them every year or two becauseof the power and conditions we run in..these seals take alot of abuse and its easier and cheaper to replace the seals every year or two than it is to repair a sunkin ski..its cheap insurance...

  5. #5
    I'll have to check once again for that black line....didnt see one a couple weeks ago from a glance. Yea I dont mind replacing these parts just because they're out anyway....and by "hat" do you mean the "floating ring" (im reading the shop manual).

    I apologize for possibly sounding like a doosh but the floating ring butts up against the FRONT of the carbon ring, and the only wear i see is the ring's REARward, inner edge....also, the driveshaft doesnt even touch the carbon ring, therefore, im not quite getting how this piece gets aged.

    With that thought in mind, do you think it has shit to do with my symptoms off idle as described in my other thread that I provided?

    Oh, and what would that "black line" be anyway if i had it? grease? from where/what?

    Thanks everyone, for whatever!!
    sean

    And furthermore......what do you (snoman) guys think of my wonderful avatar and sig pics??? WTF? Wetsand them smooth, replace O-ring seals and just let it roll or what?

  6. #6
    dnielsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoman View Post
    It could be a combination of both,the carbon ring and accordian boot..With it being a 05,having 160 hours on it and still being original i would highly recommend replacing the whole carbon seal/accordian boot assembly...And no its not just a floating peice..it is also a wear item..the carbon seal wears against the hat..you may have noticed a black line on the bottom of your hull were the carbon seal is located...Some people like myself replace them every year or two becauseof the power and conditions we run in..these seals take alot of abuse and its easier and cheaper to replace the seals every year or two than it is to repair a sunkin ski..its cheap insurance...
    +1, change the boot and seal, check the wear ring in the pump, inspect the impeller for damage, check your motor mounts, check all the pump bolts and the pump seal. Pull the impeller even if it looks normal and check each blades trailing edge on a flat surface to see if they measure the same. 1 - 2 mm on a blade can cause some weird stuff!!!! I think the max clearance between the ring and prop is .035, someone correct me if I'm wrong..

  7. #7
    I plan to check the motor mounts tomorrow. everything in the pump area is okay as far as a visual inspection goes....but even if it weren't all perfectly okay, I dont think i'd still be pulling max RPMs and speed, right?
    I think I can only check the motor mounts by feel, correct? Cant see them?

    My off-idle is less than normal (like a slipping clutch in a car) but once I plane out it's all normal from there.

  8. #8
    dnielsen's Avatar
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    I apologize for possibly sounding like a doosh but the floating ring butts up against the FRONT of the carbon ring, and the only wear i see is the ring's REARward, inner edge....also, the driveshaft doesnt even touch the carbon ring, therefore, im not quite getting how this piece gets aged.

    The hat is stationary in front to rear motion but spins with the shaft. The boot presses the carbon seal against the hat causing a water tight seal. Over a period of time the boot gets weaker, the carbon seal surface wears due to sloppy allignment (wears even if allignment is perfect), sand and other debris getting between the hat and seal. One the surface wears it shortens the carbon seal creating less pressure being applied by the boot (simply put, the seal wears away from the hat).

  9. #9
    Okay gotcha there....and does THAT wear possibly cause my mechanical symptoms off idle? And whats the black line that people get with a bad carbon ring? Ring material?.....how does that stick to the hull under water?

  10. #10
    dnielsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkturbo! View Post
    I plan to check the motor mounts tomorrow. everything in the pump area is okay as far as a visual inspection goes....but even if it weren't all perfectly okay, I dont think i'd still be pulling max RPMs and speed, right?
    I think I can only check the motor mounts by feel, correct? Cant see them?

    My off-idle is less than normal (like a slipping clutch in a car) but once I plane out it's all normal from there.
    Find you an peice of 2 x 4 and wedge between the engine and the hull a give a little pull, be careful not to break anything. Sure as hell sounds like cavitation to me, I know you really dont want to pull the pump to check the prop but it should only take 30 mins at best to pull, I still recomend checking the prop clearance and blades. I'm not certain if you know how little .035 really is for wear ring clearance but is a small amount!!!! I know your frustrated but you need to check these things to be certain, we can help you figure this out but hang with us on it.

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