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  1. #1

    Hello, Quick question.

    My name is Jason. This is my first post, thank you for reading it.

    I have a 94 650std. I bought the craft not starting. Well I was able to get it to start, but it was flakey. Sometimes it would, sometimes it wouldnt start. I checked all of the usally suspects, kill switch, ignition cables, battery voltage, and diagnosed it down to a very weak pattern from the hall generator. I bought a brand new mag from Polaris, installed it and it was still flakey. I am strictly guessing now, but it seems that I could possibly have a bad ignitor/ignition module.

    I want to replace this but was told it is discontinued. I am very leary about buyin a used one do to the fact that there appears to be a problem with them. Any Advise? Thank You!


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Hulk

    The 1994 engine is a Fuji, which does not have Hall Effect sensors in the magneto stator. The Fuji magneto stator only has several coils in it. What test were you doing that showed a 'weak pattern'?

    When it doesn't start, do you have a strong spark? Weak or no spark?

    What work has been done with the carburetors and fuel system?

    Have you looked at the links in my signature?

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  3. #3
    "The "trigger coils" are Hall Effect sensors and re
    quire a constant DC power source via the brown
    wire out of the CDI module. The wire is powered
    when the engine is cranked for starting and while
    running. When a magnet (sealed in the magnet
    holder on the flywheel) is passed by the sensor,
    the sensor becomes conductive and triggers the
    release of the energy stored in the capacitor,
    creating the ignition spark." From the manual. I dont have it all, by guess this is close?

    or pick-up for the stator. Not too fimiliar with some of the pwc terms vs automotive terms.


    This is the figure I was using in the manual.
    I monitored the wave generation on my SnapOn Modis. At times I could see a clear rise in voltage as rpm increased, as would be expected, but when I applied voltage to the coil, to add resistence, any signal would be lost or degraded that I could only capture it as a glitch.

    Compared on a 650 sl that the dealer let me run this test on I was way off. So I replaced the entire stator assy which came with what looked to be a new pick-assy, with more robust looking wires. When I installed that, it originally would not start. I assumed I was back at square one. Then the next day or so it fired right up. I took it on vacation, last august, and ran perfectly the entire week. Now, getting this ski ready for the spring, I pulled it out to clean it. I have a very, very small spark. Orange in color only at times, fading to what appears to be no spark at all. With my inductive lead attached to any of the three wires, I can see activity in the high tension lead, but not enough to make a quantitative measurement, or obviously let the craft run. I had saved a plot on my Modis last year so I know what a good waveform should look like. Well it is still there. Maybe a little stronger in fact, but that could be due to the battery being on charge all night. I have gone throught the test on the CDI, and it does in fact appear to be a faulty CDI, so in regards to my original question.

    Does anyone have any advise on purchasing a CDI when a new unit can no longer be obtained? Reman?

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonsrt4 View Post
    "The "trigger coils" are Hall Effect sensors and require a constant DC power source via the brown wire out of the CDI module. The wire is powered when the engine is cranked for starting and while running. When a magnet (sealed in the magnet holder on the flywheel) is passed by the sensor, the sensor becomes conductive and triggers the release of the energy stored in the capacitor, creating the ignition spark."

    From the manual. I don't have it all, by guess this is close?

    or pick-up for the stator. Not too familiar with some of the pwc terms vs automotive terms.

    ... I monitored the wave generation on my SnapOn Modis. At times I could see a clear rise in voltage as rpm increased, as would be expected, but when I applied voltage to the coil, to add resistance, any signal would be lost or degraded that I could only capture it as a glitch. ..
    The quoted text applies ONLY to the RED domestic engine, not the Blue Fuji engine.

    The Fuji stator only has coils, no Hall Effect sensors.

    I am not sure what you were doing when you 'added voltage to increase resistance', but the primary test for the Fuji stator is to verify the coil resistances (ohms), and to confirm none of the coils are shorted to ground.

    Which service manual are you using?

    More info can be found here;
    Polaris Fuji (blue) engine

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonsrt4 View Post
    ... Not too familiar with some of the PWC terms vs automotive terms.

    ... Compared on a 650 sl that the dealer let me run this test on I was way off. So I replaced the entire stator assy which came with what looked to be a new pick-assy, with more robust looking wires.

    When I installed that, it originally would not start. I assumed I was back at square one. Then the next day or so it fired right up. I took it on vacation, last august, and ran perfectly the entire week.

    Now, getting this ski ready for the spring, I pulled it out to clean it. I have a very, very small spark. Orange in color only at times, fading to what appears to be no spark at all.

    With my inductive lead attached to any of the three wires, I can see activity in the high tension lead, but not enough to make a quantitative measurement, or obviously let the craft run. I had saved a plot on my Modis last year so I know what a good waveform should look like. Well it is still there. Maybe a little stronger in fact, but that could be due to the battery being on charge all night. I have gone through the test on the CDI, and it does in fact appear to be a faulty CDI, so in regards to my original question.

    Does anyone have any advise on purchasing a CDI when a new unit can no longer be obtained? Reman?
    Good used CDI are available. Start with contacting John Zigler, who can be found in the Parts Sources link from my signature links.

    Sometimes working Fuji CDI are listed in the Polaris Classifieds on Greenhulk, often when a complete PWC is being parted out. You can use CDI from some of the similar Polaris Fuji models.

    eBay is another source.

    You may want to take some time and review/clean/check the various grounding connections. Separate the thin and thick Black wires from the battery negative post and from each other.

    Now confirm that each thing in the electrical system that should be grounded does indeed have zero ohms to the engine block. Not the engine bed plate, the actual engine block (such as a cylinder head bolt or crankcase intake manifold bolt).

    Pay particular attention to the ground path between the electrical box and the stator, which is the main ground link between the two. Also make sure the CDI, coils, LR module, are all properly grounded. No corrosion on either side of the terminal board.

    It is not uncommon for one or more ground connections to develop corrosion. On the Fuji engines, the battery ground path goes through the engine bed plate bolts into the bottom of the crank case.

    BTW, what are the last two digits on the HIN number plate on the rear deck. That would be the model year. I just want to confirm which year and model we are talking about.

  6. #6
    Thank You! Thats is a great wealth of knowledge.

    The coil test is used to add voltage to a coil or winding to determine its actual resistance. When voltage is appleid, resistance goes up, a coil that may test within spec at 0 voltage, may begin to show resitance when voltage is appied for a certain amount of time.

    Bosch had a test procedure exactly like what im doing, that was a way to help diagnose ignition concerns that you could not duplicate when the customer came in. It was a way to show which coil was within tolerance, and which one could be a possible concern.

    Sometimes there is no obvious go/no go, but more like a 'no-go-if'. The test is been fairley accurate for me over the years. It comes set up in most higher end scopes. Modis and Solarity come to mind.

    But this is here nor there. I hoped I helped explain my method to you though.

    Found a CDI someone will stand behind for 30 days!

    Cant beat that at all! Thank You for your help, take care!!

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