04-17-2011, 07:15 PM #1
2002 Virage I EMM Continuity across pins 9 and 10 for rear injector
This is the second time I've had continuity across pins 9 and 10 with the EMM. 9 and 10 on the 40 pin out are for the rear injector (called injector #3 in the tech manual).
The first time was within a month of buying this PWC used in May of 2007. I sent it to DFI Technologies and they repaired the EMM right away.
Today, I was trying to get the ski started in my driveway to make sure everything was working right for this season. As usual, this ski is always hard to start. I removed the air cleaner and created my own "choke effect" at the throttle body and the ski started right up. I was revving the engine trying to get it warmed up to idle on its own... but at usual, it seemed like it was misfiring and as soon as I let off the throttle, it would die. I got it back running again, was revving the throttle again, and it died. The engine would turn over, I had spark, but the PWC would not try to start.
At this point, I thought about last time with the short in the EMM across 9 and 10 so I removed the wiring plug for the rear solenoid... and it then would try to start. I checked continuity across those wires which go to the EMM and i had continuity... again.
I'm afraid to send the EMM back to DFI Tech to have repaired for what looks like $609.00 only to possibly have this issue occur again.
Do you guys beleive that the rear injector is suspect and causing the problems with the EMM or perhaps this EMM has an inherant flaw that continues to surface. I'm leaning toward the solenoid as the ski is so hard to start and revs so strangely when in the driveway... and won't hardly idle.
Get this, i bout it with less than 30 hours in 2007 and now it has 45.5 total hours so about 15-20 since the EMM was repaired!!!!!
Let me know what your thoughts are.
04-17-2011, 07:59 PM #2
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- near Toronto, Canada
When I de-winterize my own Ficht engines in the next few weeks I fully expect them to start fairly promptly, even with the fogging oil inside and having sat all winter. In normal conditions, it will start within a few seconds of pressing Start and then immediately settle down to a stable and smooth idle at 1150 RPM. No stalling, no need to touch the throttle to keep it running.
That your MSX 140 is always hard to start suggests it has never been quite right. Manually 'choking' a Ficht engine should not help it start, since it should start promptly to begin with.
I should clarify how the Ficht fuel injectors work with the EMM. There are two wires at each injector. Only one of those wires goes directly to the EMM.
The White/Red wire provides 45 volts DC directly to all the injectors, and this voltage is provided by a separate section of the EMM, where the 8-pin connector is.
Note: There is also a large cylindrical capacitor across the 45 volt supply. It rarely gives trouble, and is covered with a tight rubber boot that is hard to remove. Sometimes the capacitor's terminal screws can work loose. There is a simple diagnostic for the capacitor - right after the engine stops, the 45 volts should slowly bleed down. If the voltage collapses as soon as the engine stops then the capacitor is not working.
I suggest you measure the voltage on White/Red. When cranking the engine it must be over 20 volts. As soon as the engine starts the voltage should jump up to 40-45 volts and become stable. A common problem with the Ficht EMM is that the power section weakens and does not provide over 20 volts while cranking. Weak voltage to the injectors means they will not actually deliver fuel, and the engine doesn't start.
The other wire from each injector does go directly to that 40-pin connector. When the EMM wants to inject fuel, it pulses (shorts) the injector wire to ground. That means the injector is momentarily connected between 45 volts on White/Red and ground through the EMM. This causes the Ficht RAM injector to fire a high pressure and very short duration fuel pulse into the cylinder. The EMM grounding pulse time of the injector is very short (milliseconds).
The DC resistance of the injector coil is very low. With 45 volts available, the current pulse through the injector is many amps of current.
If your EMM was previously shorted to ground on pin 9, then the PTO (rear) injector may have been subject to a sustained heavy current which may have damaged the injector coil internally. Since these injector coils are a very low ohm specification, it is nearly impossible to tell with a multi-meter if the injector coil is partially shorted.
Your EMM appears to be damaged (again) and you may have a damaged injector.
My suggestion is to shop for a replacement EMM. Buy an EMM that comes with a matching set of fuel injectors (marked with the cylinders they came from).
Remove your old injectors and EMM, and install the replacements. Be sure to install each replacement injector on the same cylinder position it came from.
Tip: A common cause of difficult starting and poor idle is a bad TPS on the throttle body. Replacement TPS are currently in short supply, but we are expecting more to be manufactured in the near future. The two cylinder Virage i engine is known to be hard on the TPS due to engine vibration, so a replacement TPS is recommended.
04-18-2011, 08:49 AM #3
I really appreciate the prompt and thorough feedback. I know what you mean on the fuel injected engines. I also have a 2002 Supra Launch SSV (wakeboard boat) and it started with the fist turn of the key... I've never gotten that satisfaction from this PWC!
I see on the autoresponse email from the DFI Tech that I received last night that they will "rebuild your injectors" for what looks like $249.95 each as well as the EMM repair.
My next question, and you knew it was coming, is about parts... as well as service since it is a Polaris PWC. If I don't want to go the route of the EMM and injector rebuild, where can I find parts. I've done Google searches as well as eBay searches and the results haven't been promising so far.
As always, I really appreciate the help.
04-18-2011, 09:41 AM #4
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- near Toronto, Canada
Parted out machines would be the most common source, either eBay or our own Classifieds. I think new EMM (4010408 ) are still available, pricing circa $1,100 (Babbitts) without injectors.
Interestingly, Babbitts is also showing a 're-manufactured' EMM 4010408-R for $714. I don't know if these would be DFI repaired units or something else, but it might be worth calling Babbitts (231-737-4542) to see what exactly these are
If you buy a new EMM (or rebuilt?) then programming data (compensation map) for each injector can be copied from your old EMM (at least for the MAG injector).
If you don't want to re-use your PTO injector, Polaris sells individual $350 'Service replacement' injector (2202190, supersedes 1253375) which come with a special floppy disc that updates the EMM for that injector.
Note: BRP (yes, the Sea-Doo company) actually makes the injectors, so you may see BRP part numbers (Babbitts shows BMC5005059)
A special software program and cable is used by a Polaris dealer to transfer the injector data from the old EMM to the new. I am sure one of the service shops that supports the GH forum would be willing to do that work for you. All they need is both the old and new EMM and the injector serial numbers (although I would also send the actual injectors with the EMM).
DFI also has the gear to transfer injector maps between EMM.
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