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  1. #1

    msx 150 possible bad etb?

    Hey guys had my msx 150 out for this last weekend before I put it away for winter but had a weird issue and wondered if I can get some guidance before starting to pull bits off it.

    Riding at full throttle, rpm dropped to idle with cel flashing and no response from the throttle lever at all. Idled back into shore, turned off ski, started it again with cel still flashing however had throttle to approx 5800rpm.

    Pulled it out of the water, checked map sensors thinking they may have been the issue, even though they are brand new (thought I may have mucked something else up) but found no problems.

    Put it back in the water the next day took off with cel flashing but felt like it had full power for approx 30 seconds then ski died, restarted again with no throttle control and idled back to shore. Left ski on trailer running and after many starts and stops couldnt get it to replicate the no throttle control fault but cel stayed on with rpm limited to 5750/5800

    Any ideas? ETB's arent abundant here in oz so before I import one from the US to try I need some expertise!

    Thanks


  2. #2
    Kosh's Avatar
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    Hi Hinchi,

    What makes you think it is the TB? Have you tried doing a reset? you can listen and observe the process. Another TB check is to remove the intake tube and watch it open and close with the throttle lever(push start button with out starting)

    If this happened to me on the water for no reason I would first susoect an overboost spike, but the CEL should have reset with a restart.

    Cheers

  3. #3
    Hey Kosh, I guess it was just the fact that the ski had thrown the cel and immediately had no throttle response but was still idling in. Im wondering if there is more than one problem?

  4. #4
    Hi guys, I had a bit more of a look at this today, with the intake tube removed and after pressing the start button but not actually starting the engine, moving the throttle lever would open the butterfly but only a very small amount maybe 1/4 of what it should open Even when held at full throttle. Surely full throttle would have had the butterfly nearly moving 90 degrees?

    So after mucking about with this for a while I gave the ski a quick run in the shed (not at the lake) before shutting it off, the throttle response was poor. After doing this I now cant get the ski to restart full stop. There is no action whatsoever from the throttle body. The throttle lever is pulling the cable but it isnt translating to the actual intake butterfly. When I press the start button to crank the motor it cranks fine but cant get started, im assuming due to no butterfly movement and to no air!

    Is there a way to test the ppu and the etb other than finding a dealer who will run the codes up for me on digital wrench to see what it is saying?

    Finally when the throttle body actually was moving, even when I wasnt moving the throttle and the butterfly was stationary there was a loud buzzing that was noticeably louder when the butterfly was moving.

    I am starting to think that the throttle body is the problem not the ppu, assuming the ecu controls the butterfly opening on startup and the fact that my ski wouldnt restart and nothing happening in the intake during the start button being pressed leads me to "guess" that the etb isnt responding and may have failed?

    Any further info would be great guys. Thanks

  5. #5
    Kosh's Avatar
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    Hinchi,

    Put your finger on the throttle plate and give it a push. It will resist there is a nice wound spring and you also have to spin the stepper motor but it will move freely. If it does not you have a seized throttle shaft. Repairable, I have done a couple but you have to be careful and patient. Will talk you through it if it is this.

    The no start is most likely low voltage from your battery due to testing. Charge it up and then try. The ecu will not allow start up if the voltage while cranking gets to low.

  6. #6
    Hey Kosh, the throttle plate moves freely Battery was fully charged before I took the ski away over easter, but will give it another charge and see if it helps.

    Thanks.

    Whilst I have this thing apart I want to change the oil breather to avoid oil contamination, Is it as simple as plumbing in a catch can between the line running from the cyclone back to the air intake just in front of the turbo?

  7. #7
    Kosh's Avatar
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    If you have gone this far you may as well pull the tb off and check it out for any greenery in the electrics. Four cap screws and one conector. Check where the plug goes for cleanliness. Next step with a screw driver flick the retaining clips off the cover, this is where you need to be careful, remove the cover and be careful of the wiper wires that run on the carbon tracks once these are damaged they can't be fixed to a state you would be happy with.
    I have come across tb that have been contaminated in this area.

    I do have a spare I can post over if you need to test with a known working unit.
    If you unplug the tb the engine will still start and idle.
    It may pay to check the ecu pins and other plugs and sockets for any contamination.

    Remove the breather line to the air intake and plumb it to a catch can, this simple mod is one of the best things you can do to look after the MAP sensors.

  8. #8
    Hi Kosh,

    Thanks heaps for your help but still no luck so far. I managed to start the engine before I pulled out the throttle body but only by actually moving the butterfly myself. I removed the throttle body, it looks really clean inside no corrosion, the little fingers are all in good condition. I tested the motor by just free running it with a AA battery and it seemed to spin freely. There was no issues with the plug at the throttle body again all clean, the ecu pins your talking about are the ones right at the computer? I havent looked there yet.

    Thanks
    Shaun.

  9. #9
    Kosh's Avatar
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    Yes, I came across one recently with issues and found the green meany in one of the ecu connectors (unfortuately this one needed a new ecu and plug to repair)

  10. #10
    Hey Kosh,

    So I didnt have a chance to get back to this till yesterday, pulled the plugs on the ecu all looked good, plugged them back in and the throttle body back in too and its all working again..... hmmmmm Frustrating cause its working but nothing was fixed so will it be reliable on the water???.

    I will have to get it back on the water in the next week or so and see what happens I guess.

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