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  1. #1
    Taking money away from the Z06 Fund
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    C3 and R2, No Powershot Needed, Correct?

    I'm looking to upgrade from my C1 wheel to a C3 wheel to go with my R2 on my SHO. What is the verdict on running the C3/R2 combo without a Powershot? Other mods include Riva Cooler, BOV, River Filter, Water box and exhaust, ribbon delete, Jim's modded plate, intake grate, Riva nozzle.

    I'm getting frustrated with my prop adventures and chasing speed with the C1. I have a box stock 13/23 Skat that I know will work perfectly with the C3/R2 combo, so this is playing into my thinking. I had a true Skat done by Impros and my RPMs dropped by 350rpms from the 13/23 down to a 14/20 without any mods or changes, similar weather etc. Not sure how that's possible, but I'm looking now to possibly just add the C3 and be done with it.

    Thoughts?
    Thanks!


  2. #2
    hitman's Avatar
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    With a C3 and R2 you may need a powershot. Every ski is different depending on other mods like engine cooling and intercooler setup. You should really get an AF gauge so you know where you are at. If you send the ECU back to R&D and specify that you want an R2 with enough fuel to run the C3 wheel WITHOUT a powershot they can do that for you. The other option would be to upgrade to the R3. With an out of the box R3 you should be able to run the C3 wheel and no powershot, but again, I would rather have a A/F gauge and know FOR SURE, where my AFRs are. Without it you are just guessing.

  3. #3
    Addicted Member 5001craig's Avatar
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    I say it's foolish to add boost without already having an AFR gauge installed. These engines are too expensive to replace.

  4. #4
    THE PLATE MAN JIM'S PERFORMANCE's Avatar
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    you will need a power shot. In the dead of heat and water temp. at 91 i tried it and was running 13.2 AFR.

  5. #5
    Taking money away from the Z06 Fund
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    Thanks guys. I have a LM2 for AF, but considering the LC1 to have on the ski more permanently.

    I'm a little confused on why the R3 would be ok with the C3 but not the R2. From what I remember, isn't the R3 more aggressive than the R2? I do like the idea of sending my ECU back to R&D to richen it up. I really want to avoid running the Band aid of the Powershot and let the ECU handle it with the tune, even if it means richening it up top is fine by me.

    I will give R&D a call to get their thoughts as well as get their opinion on my prop dilemma. I wonder if my C1/R2 doesn't have enough power to turn the 14/20 I put on, hence the loss in RPMs. I was at 8040 with my box stock 13/23 Skat and was hoping the drop to 20 on the trailing edge would do the trick. Im thinking maybe trying a 12/20 or 12/21 to see if that helps. I'll see what R&D thinks as this Impros 14/20 isn't doing anything.

  6. #6
    STALKER FZR's Avatar
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    Good luck...Keep us posted. I'm interested in what they tell you.

  7. #7
    SHOBiz's Avatar
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    The R3 doesn't just do timing, it also dumps more fuel. That is why it is okay for the C3.

  8. #8
    Taking money away from the Z06 Fund
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    Thanks Shobiz. Looks like R&D has alot higher reflashes now and the R3 is no longer the big dog. Makes sense about the R3/C3 combo. Will keep everyone posted on R&D's thoughts.

  9. #9
    mjh3ides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poof100 View Post
    I will give R&D a call to get their thoughts as well as get their opinion on my prop dilemma. I wonder if my C1/R2 doesn't have enough power to turn the 14/20 I put on, hence the loss in RPMs. I was at 8040 with my box stock 13/23 Skat and was hoping the drop to 20 on the trailing edge would do the trick. Im thinking maybe trying a 12/20 or 12/21 to see if that helps. I'll see what R&D thinks as this Impros 14/20 isn't doing anything.
    The 14/20 is also a Skat? Your revs are way low from what I've seen with a C1/R2. I was turning a true 13/23 @ 8400 in 90* weather with a C1/R2 & my underperforming upgraded OEM cooler. With the Riva cooler you should be at least 8500-8600 with that prop. I'd recheck your AFR before doing anything else. After installing the Riva cooler I was at 12.5 AFR(13/23 @ 8200) with the stock wheel, so you may be a little lean with the C1.

  10. #10
    Taking money away from the Z06 Fund
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjh3ides View Post
    The 14/20 is also a Skat? Your revs are way low from what I've seen with a C1/R2. I was turning a true 13/23 @ 8400 in 90* weather with a C1/R2 & my underperforming upgraded OEM cooler. With the Riva cooler you should be at least 8500-8600 with that prop. I'd recheck your AFR before doing anything else. After installing the Riva cooler I was at 12.5 AFR(13/23 @ 8200) with the stock wheel, so you may be a little lean with the C1.
    Thanks Mark. Well, the Skat prop was originally a 13/24 that I was using last summer before the R2. I tried it out last summer with the R2 and Riva cooler and then the C1 and it was too tall. I bought a box stock 13/23 Skat from Jerry to put on and best I could get was 8040rpms and about 75mph. I sent the 13/24 Skat out to Dave at Impros to refinish and repitch to a True 14/20 based on my thinking I needed another 400-500rpms and the drop to 20 on the trailing edge would do it. With the New baby last summer and New boat this spring, I only got a chance to take the Ski out this past weekend to test out the new 14/20 Skat prop from Impros.

    Needless to say I was not happy with the results, as it only goes up to 7680rpms right now, NO other changes other than 4 new plugs and an Oil change/filter with the new season. Same stock NGK plugs and the ones I pulled out from last summer looked perfectly normal.

    I'm running the R&D Cone as well and the 86mm ring on the Riva Nozzle. I haven't changed it though and with the 13/23 box stock, it ran pretty well in my opinion and in the August heat with 85 degree water temps. I'm only running the dedicated Cooling line from the pump to the Riva cooler through a Groco strainer. I still have the stock cooling for the engine/oil as I felt I wasn't pushing enough boost to warrant the new cooling lines for engine/oil.

    I'm about as stumped as you on this. I need to figure out how to hook up and wire the Boost guage to the ski to see if there is a small boost leak but it doesnt feel like it and it pulls hard with the 13/23 up to 8040rpms and I know the BOV is working. I'm getting frustrated though as I thought I would be fine with the props I selected. Dave at Impros even thought my box stock Skat 13/23 is really a 13/22 but props are not my specialty and I don't have anyone near me to measure etc.

    My thinking here is I send out my ECU to R&D to get upgraded to the R3 and order a brand new Skat from Impros pitched at 13/20 to start from a fresh slate. Either that or get the R3 and move up to the C3 and keep the 13/23 I've got.

    Thanks
    Jeff

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