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  1. #1
    Resident electronics hacker UnityRacing's Avatar
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    Picked up 02 Virage 800 - need help

    Ok I bought the ski non running. Looks new, but doesn't start.
    PO said the ski last season would not idle long before cutting off....

    Tried hooking up a car battery to the ski with good voltage (off the car) using jumper cables to the pos and neg wires in the ski (no battery in ski)
    Still could not get it to start.
    Tried a brand new AGM battery, like right out of the box new, but had 12.7v. Again with the jumper cables.
    Still no start.

    Pressed schrader valve in, no fuel came out.
    Checked white/red - has 6v ish while cranking. This was with ground on the head bolt, and pos puncturing the pto injector wire.

    Also tried unplugging the TPS.

    Going to check the battery cable connections at solenoid (looked good at glance) and the block.
    Going to try grounding brown at the pump and see if I get fuel.

    What am I looking at here? Any other checks to help pin point this? Could the jumper cables negitively impact starting & 6v on the INJ wires?

    Ski has 121hrs, turns over fine. I should also point out the PO changed the plug wires to new non oem ones. Plugs were pretty dirty, took pics and then cleaned them up for the time being. They were also hand tight if that. Could be from the "shop" working on it.

    More searching and reading to do, just hoping someone has some input in the meantime.
    I DO have 2 EMM / Injector sets for a 1200 - Could I swap in for testing purposes?


  2. #2
    Resident electronics hacker UnityRacing's Avatar
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    DFI quoted me flat rate for all Polaris EMM's is $549 + approx $15 return shipping.

  3. #3
    Resident electronics hacker UnityRacing's Avatar
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    Ok started checking things out more in depth today and here is what I found -
    Ground to block was a little corroded; removed / cleaned - reinstalled
    Stator wires - no continuity to ground. 1-12 / 2-11 read 0.9 ohms (a tiny bit high) and 3-10 / 4-9 / 5-8 all read 0.7 (a tiny bit high)
    I suspect since they all read the same everything is good there
    CPS is reading 150.9 ohms pin to pin
    Since cleaning the ground wire and actually installing the battery I now have fuel pressure (not sure how much, still need to get my gauge back)
    Battery started out at 12.7v and before coming inside reads 12.2v
    Cranking voltage dips to 11.04
    White/red wire has 10-11v while cranking now.

    All testing was done with meter grounded to a head bolt and/or bolt going through the coil bracket.
    Battery currently has a charger on it. Pos wire disconnected from the ski.

    I did try another EMM, swapping the two plugs for the voltage side to it. No change, but I'm not sure if its good. (The EMM)

    After reading this post I'm wondering if it could be the stator:
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/show...-msx-140-issue

  4. #4
    Resident electronics hacker UnityRacing's Avatar
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    Next i'm going to try swapping out the capacitor tomorrow for another one I have.
    Its worth a shot and takes 10 minutes.
    After that I will pull the stator, and if I can get it off, the flywheel.
    Does the oil pump need to come off?

  5. #5
    slothman's Avatar
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    have you checked the compression? is it getting spark ?

  6. #6
    Resident electronics hacker UnityRacing's Avatar
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    I tried swapping the capacitor last night to no avail.

    Diag sheet says its getting 150/140 compression. I will try that when I get home if I can find my tester.
    Is there any way in particular I need to test the spark? Can I just remove the plug, ground the body and look for spark?

  7. #7
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnityRacing View Post
    I tried swapping the capacitor last night to no avail.

    Diag sheet says its getting 150/140 compression. I will try that when I get home if I can find my tester.
    Is there any way in particular I need to test the spark? Can I just remove the plug, ground the body and look for spark?
    Just pop out plugs, put back in cap and lay on a head bolt and crank her over. Let us know the results. Voltage is way low on red/white.
    Hold on on pulling things apart, you will be into a big job, and may not be necessary. If you had nothing going to ground on your stator test, and you find you have spark, then likely you have no issue with stator, and would just be creating more work for yourself.

    Just let me know about spark, and I will suggest next steps. These DI machines are actually pretty simple if you remain calm, and don't go on any wild goose chases

    I had a machine that ohm'd correctly, but had 2 pins going to ground. When I removed the flywheel the rare earth magnets were chipped, was sandblasted in there, and the metal dust was causing my ground issue. I did not see in the post you referenced above that they did a test to ground, just talked about ohm readings. I bet if they would have tested to ground, they would have found it, or at least it would/could be an intermitent ground.
    THe other thing that has helped me on these DI ski's, just pull the EMM and send it to DFI for testing. You have a spare, but you don't know if it is good either, so just put it to bed, best money spent. Once you EMM has a clean bill of health, the rest should be fairly simple. TPS, CPS, or Stator, but that is a long shot. Not knowing if you have spark or not I am only guessing.

    Oh yah if you own a Polaris DI machine, you better own a fuel pressure tester... should come with one in the packet of the users manual.

  8. #8
    rlharrison60's Avatar
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    Where is Keith, He should be able to help you out.

  9. #9
    jackofalltrades's Avatar
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    Sounds like the EMM is in need of repair based on the cranking volts on the injector wire.....

  10. #10
    Resident electronics hacker UnityRacing's Avatar
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    Well I didn't test the spark, but I did dribble some gas down each intake, and tried to start it and got nothing.

    One thing very interesting I did notice is, if I disconnect the PTO injector and try to start it, I get 20+ volts on the white/red wire and can watch the cap discharge on the meter. (This is while tapped into either white/red injector wire)
    If I plug in the PTO and disconnect the MAG injector, I get the same response I had been getting - 9ish volts.

    I thought the injector might be faulty so I removed it, and I get 1ohm readings solid. Tried to replace it temporarily and that didn't change anything.
    I DO however get a ground continuity between the block and one of the wires on the PTO injector wire while unplugged. Sorry I cannot recall wich one, I was doing ALOT yesterday.

    I did try reseating all the buss bars under the EMM.
    And Boom - I did check for ground on all stator pins, I forgot to add that.

    At this point I think I am going to send the EMM off to DFI. Its the only way to know for sure whats going on. I *THINK* there is a faulty component inside causing a ground on the line.

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