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  1. #1
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    MSX 150 crazy stuff... need help big time

    Tested mass air flow sensor and pressure sensor, all within spec.
    This unit was overfilled with oil, it is now down to acceptable level.
    I have physically inspected intake tract, oil is present, but not at a heavy rate, more or less a coating. Cleaned both sensors, retested, all good on ohm test.
    Now for the crazyness. Start up in reverse, idles up in the 3k range and is stumbly, go to Forward, motor runs up and would hit rev limit if we let it go. Immediatly shut down. The process is very consistent. Battery was down, we charged it, had a 30 amp fuse blown in the fuse holder that had 2 30 amp's and 1 15 amp, middle 30 amp was popped. replaced, no change.
    Starter solenoid input circut was dirty, which was making it appear it had a dead battery. The battery is new, it appears to have a drain on it, as I watch voltmeter. GDavis has posted about this ski, he is here now in my shop, so we can consolidate the advice to this thread. I am very much focused on throttle input sensors as the issue. If I unplug both PPU's should I not get a response much similar as disconnecting TPS on Fitch machine?? We are getting voltage somewhere opening up the injectors, as turbo spools, everything happens normally on run up, the abnormal part is nobody is touching the throttle!!

    Thanks!!

    John


  2. #2
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomanch1967 View Post
    Tested mass air flow sensor and pressure sensor, all within spec.
    This unit was overfilled with oil, it is now down to acceptable level.
    I have physically inspected intake tract, oil is present, but not at a heavy rate, more or less a coating. Cleaned both sensors, retested, all good on ohm test.
    Now for the crazyness. Start up in reverse, idles up in the 3k range and is stumbly, go to Forward, motor runs up and would hit rev limit if we let it go. Immediatly shut down. The process is very consistent. Battery was down, we charged it, had a 30 amp fuse blown in the fuse holder that had 2 30 amp's and 1 15 amp, middle 30 amp was popped. replaced, no change.
    Starter solenoid input circut was dirty, which was making it appear it had a dead battery. The battery is new, it appears to have a drain on it, as I watch voltmeter. GDavis has posted about this ski, he is here now in my shop, so we can consolidate the advice to this thread. I am very much focused on throttle input sensors as the issue. If I unplug both PPU's should I not get a response much similar as disconnecting TPS on Fitch machine?? We are getting voltage somewhere opening up the injectors, as turbo spools, everything happens normally on run up, the abnormal part is nobody is touching the throttle!!

    Thanks!!

    John
    OK boys and girls, we dropped off both PPUs, started idles fine. Dropped front PPU back on, restarted same, idle perfect, reconnect PPU2 on throttle body and she runs for the moon.... guess we know what the problem is now!!! Now to find one!!

    I miss spoke, I unplugged connection at throttle body, which I was calling PPU2 looking at schematic on polarispartshouse, that connection is direct to throttle body. And what I was calling PPU1 was the block under the front bucket on right side of ski.

  3. #3
    Kosh's Avatar
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    You are starting this up in reverse out of the water? you need to. If you can stand the revving on the limiter long enough it will genearlly settle down to an idle. I cant do it myself. Sometimes you strike it lucky and it will idle properly. Known peculiarity that was never fixed.

  4. #4
    Matrix 4-Tec spannerspencer's Avatar
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    experienced much the same..

    with the remap from desperado, it idle's like a sleeping baby now!

  5. #5
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosh View Post
    You are starting this up in reverse out of the water? you need to. If you can stand the revving on the limiter long enough it will genearlly settle down to an idle. I cant do it myself. Sometimes you strike it lucky and it will idle properly. Known peculiarity that was never fixed.

    Yep starting in reverse mode, on the trailer out of the water.(I do not have a death wish, as this machine on the water would kill somebody, starting with tether not on a body part or vest, later bye bye to the ski) So I am guessing as I have not had any experience with the 110 0r 150, but we have a servo motor in the throttle body running the plate in there?? I took off the piping, and the plate was closed. then put it back together. So when I start in reverse, I am idle high 3K range, flip forward, and we are off to the races as fast as we can to the rev limiter, so something is running the servo open... and popping fuel to my injectors, and that something is voltage from ?? just seems crazy that I have a system on this ski that will allow voltage(essentially phantom voltage) back at the servo motor to run up the engine. Is this a calibration mode for the sensor, as seriously this could kill someone if they were not expecting this to happen and lazily launched the boat, climbed on, hit the start button and they are pointing in a direction of shore, a person or another boat, they could never react fast enough to avoid an incident. I for sure think he needs to get the remap, as for waiting out the rev up, if the machine will take it, I am sure we can do it. So once it goes through this phantom I want to go wide open mode, it will stabilize??? Will this be something that happens at random??? Christine of pwc's.... I guess
    Starting procedure, aim your ski to open water, attach your tether, bend way down between your legs, twist your head backwards, kiss your buttgoodbye, stand back up, pull lever to reverse, push green go like hell button, now you are going backwards pretty quickly, keep your nose to the open water, flip the lever forward, hang the hell on, avoid obstructions, and at some point in the not to distant future it will idle down or you will need to turn as you are running out of water, keep this up until idle occurs, you run out of fuel or die. WOW

  6. #6
    Hilarious, Thanks for the help last night... at least now we know where are little mistake is hiding.. I think I might take it to the water this weekend and hold the hell on.... just maybe start it up in the water and let some water run through it.... and see if it does change in idle... I guess it can't hurt.... However, if you think this might damage the ski, by running with a bad sensor.... she can sit at home until she decides to act right... anyway, we are on the right track .... as far as the revving being normal... that is a little strange and I would think would blow a motor.... revving that high can't be good. GDavis

  7. #7
    Kosh's Avatar
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    Once in the water it will idle fine. If you start it up in forward it will idle and not take off.
    If you still have limited power and no flashing light I would replace one or both map sensors, once contaminated some will still not work even when measured in spec(multimeter) DW is the only real test for these.

  8. #8
    cool, so you don't think it would be a bad idea to take it to the water and check.... it's not going to hurt it anymore than what it already might be

  9. #9
    boomanch1967's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdavis View Post
    cool, so you don't think it would be a bad idea to take it to the water and check.... it's not going to hurt it anymore than what it already might be
    Before I would put "Christine" back on the water, I would start it a few times in reverse to get it warmed up, then start in reverse and flip forward, and let it run all the way up to see if by chance it will come back down. We were very quick on the kill switch on rev up. I would not go hog wild but maybe a 5 count, just to see if it will come back down. If not, I guess take it to the lake, but be damn careful.... don't want to read about you in the Springfield paper, crazed maniac on MSX 150 terrorized CJ Brown for 8 hours until he was aprehended floating out of gas... Wind burned, sun burned and handcuffed....

  10. #10
    right on.... so as far as the battery... you think it was just the starter solenoid needing cleaned up? and not the starter solenoid being bad

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