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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Mystery balance shaft water ?

    Just transpalnting a 98 951 motor between skis and thought i'd give it a quick look over.

    Motor was completely rebuilt by me a year ago so wasn't expecting any probs. Balance shaft had new seals and bearings as well.

    HOWEVER - checked the oil in the balance shaft chamber and there wasn't any in there - like none. Little bit of oily watery sludge.

    So i turned the motor on it's side and drained about 5ml of water of water out of the balance shaft. Water was fresh water and i doo 95% salt water riding. no signs of oily emulsion. Water wasn't rusty colur

    So where's the oil gone ? (can't se any signs of leaks around the plugs on both ends of the shaft). Dam sure i put oil in when i built it.

    How did fresh water get in there ? The ski has not been swamped since the rebuild

    For peace of mind i have to split the crank cases and look see don't I ?

    I'm assuming it can be done leaving the barrels in place cos i dobn't want to go buying more gaskets.

    Thanks,

    Phil


  2. #2

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Ok so i've just removed bottom crank case. There's no damage but all the oil has gone. There is no oil in the counterweight area so it didn't leak out there.

    Thinking it might have escaped through crank seals but seals were new - hot rods crank rebuild.

    There was a bit of rust on the inner faces of the crank counter weights - not sure what they called but the slabs of metal that hold the big end bearing/con rod.

    Remembered last time i was in fresh water (10 months ago) the exhaust came loose so probably the engine took some water on board then.

    If it found it's way into the counterbalnce area from the crank the seals must be buggered ????

    So at this stage i reckon the inner middle crank seals are buggered and they were new. Doesen't make a lot of sense but i can't think of any other scenario.

    Any ideas ?

  3. #3
    SURFnTURF's Avatar
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    May 2007
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    Did you seal the case halves together especially between the C/B cavity and the Crank Web housing marked red as it is a very small surface area and if not enough sealant used it can blow/suck it out as a lot of turbulence going on down the bottom of the cases.
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  4. #4

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    Mar 2011
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    Yes reckon i did.

    I've been looking at the sealant situation. Remember being told (on the crank kit) to seal round the crank case face of one of the centre crank/balance shaft seals. One of them is pretty skinny,

    Sure i did that but i can't see any of the residual sealer now. Wondering if i used the wrong sealer and it got dissolved. Then the oil and water could move between the seal crank case face.

    Used loctite master gasket - what is the best product to use ?

    Hey- thanks for your reply - always value your input

    Actually really pleased i'm doing the transplant because i've found a few things I'm not happy with

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Patterson La
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    i use permatex ultra gray or threebond 1211, or hondabond.

  6. #6
    SURFnTURF's Avatar
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    This quote direct from the manual

    "Do not use Loctite 515 or 518 to seal
    crankcase. Do not use Loctite Primer N with the
    Loctite 5910. Using these products or non siliconebased
    sealant over a previously sealed crankcase
    with Loctite 5910 will lead to poor adhesion and
    possibly a leaking crankcase. These products are
    chemically incompatibles. Even after cleaning, the
    Loctite 5910 would leave incompatible microscospic
    particules.


    Just in case you did the above

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    New Zealand
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    Bollocks - I've just read this mail after putting the crankcaes back together.

    I've got a manual for a 98 xp and it says use 518. This is the second time ive joined these cases and I used 518 both times.

    This time i used a tiny amount of silicone sealer around the inner crank seals since i believe this is how the balance shaft oil escaped.

    Hot rods crank recomended putting sealer in this location which i had done in the original rebuild but there was no residue of it left after i split the cases. Think it might not got have gone anaerobic so not cured properly so got dissolved by the petrol.

    Don't no for sure - just trying to keep my balance shaft oil.

    Engine not in the ski so might redo it yet.

  8. #8
    TEAM BRONX TECH FAT BOY's Avatar
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    Mar 2009
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    I run hot rods cranks in my boat and I spin them well past 7800rpm. Never has this issue. Use 1211.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by southernflip View Post
    Bollocks - I've just read this mail after putting the crankcaes back together.

    I've got a manual for a 98 xp and it says use 518. This is the second time ive joined these cases and I used 518 both times.

    This time i used a tiny amount of silicone sealer around the inner crank seals since i believe this is how the balance shaft oil escaped.

    Hot rods crank recomended putting sealer in this location which i had done in the original rebuild but there was no residue of it left after i split the cases. Think it might not got have gone anaerobic so not cured properly so got dissolved by the petrol.

    Don't no for sure - just trying to keep my balance shaft oil.

    Engine not in the ski so might redo it yet.
    You have made a big mistake; pull the engine and correct it! NEVER use 518 for anything! (your big mistake was using 518 AND silicone together)

    Here's the deal. Up to 2001, Sea Doo used Loctite 515/518 for sealing cases. Everyone else in the free world (especially all the Asian bike makers) knew this was stupid, and used silicone sealers. The reason it is stupid is because it doesn't always harden, it tends to lose strength over time, eventually crumbles with age, and you have a leaker. Plus, in the presence of silicone, it won't adhere. In 2001, they went to a silicone sealant. This compounded their problems, because if you ever put silicone on a case, then later use 518 in a rebuild, the 518 won't stick. So they advised in later manuals to only use silicone, just to be sure. Of course there are tons of people out there that pick up the earlier manuals, figure that 518 is OK because the manual says it is, then build an engine that leaks in a short time.

    Take the 518 tube and throw it in the rubbish. When I talk about silicone, I don't mean the stuff you buy in auto parts store or hardware store. Go buy some Threebond 1211, and never look back.

  10. #10

    Join Date
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    New Zealand
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    Hey thanks for the advice.

    Engine is still in the lounge so will split it and use 1211.

    Is 1211 a loctite product ? If not who makes it - not familiar with the brand Threebond

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