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  1. #1
    Addicted Member 5001craig's Avatar
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    Riva Gear Dampener VS R&D Superclutch Drive Gear

    So I study these two upgrades from the stock drive gear to help the sprag clutch last longer and see the two companies took very different strategies and I wonder which design is better.

    The Riva Gear Dampener (http://www.4-tecperformance.com/inde...oducts_id=1844) seems to me to slip a very small amount with replaceable rubber "biscuits" limiting the amount of slip--possibly more specifically "absorbing" the shock-load. Looks like people are receiving these units at this time. Almost seems to me like the Riva unit is designed more for the newer sprag clutch as it talks about it's ability to protect the sprag teeth in the description. The failure of this unit would possibly be the rubber biscuits wear out (and what happens to them when they wear out?)? Otherwise, no adjustments necessary and this is positive as removing this unit is a bit of a beatch.

    The R&D Superclutch Drive Gear (http://www.4-tecperformance.com/inde...oducts_id=1859) has a "dual action" adjustable clutch inside the drive gear with friction discs. Not sure how the dual action matters as the sprag comes un-hooked when the motor decelerates. These units are to start shipping 1/20/2012. Also, the bearings and clutch discs are lubed thru-shaft in this design. The failure of this unit would be the friction discs wear-out? This unit is adjustable (with a supplied tool) for different boost levels so I would have to learn more about how this is accomplished as well as how often this needs to be accomplished.

    R&D seems to care more than Riva about the weight of their unit as it is pimped in their description and not in the Riva description. FWIW, I heave read here on GH that some feel the Riva's ability to dampen the shock-load of the sprag engaging outweighs the weight of the unit. The description says this unit is compatible for both clutches.

    Oh, and the Riva is two bills less than the R&D unit.

    Don't really care about whose bandwagons people are on. Just very interested in what the thoughts of others are on which unit is better (winter is here and there is no snow yet for the sled...).

    Craig


  2. #2
    Im calling the 2 of them close to equal Craig, with a slight advantage to the R&D unit.. Heres why..
    If you use a comparison from harmonic balancers on a crankshaft, which do pretty much the same thing, using the old standard of a rubber sleeve pressed between an inner and outer hub, you get something similar to the Riva unit. Even though the designs are different, it uses rubber for the vibration/shockload dampening element.
    If you compare what would be considered an upgrade from that style, you probably would go the the Fluidampr, which has been proven to be superior at absorbing crankshaft harmonics. This style has an inner 360 degree rotating steel ring that floats in a heavy silicone fluid inside the balancer housing. This design has been dyno tested to make more HP and therefore eliminates much more crankshaft deflection in Hi HP engines. Once again the design is different, but both use fluid as their dampening element.
    Vibrations are simply frequencies, and the trick is to absorb the frequency. When you accomplish that, you break less parts.. Its that simple..
    Also, any time you have a driven gear system like this setup is, weight is also very important. Less driven gear rotating weight = less drive gear load and inertia shockloads.

  3. #3
    Addicted Member 5001craig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rossnemo View Post
    Im calling the 2 of them close to equal Craig, with a slight advantage to the R&D unit.. Heres why..
    If you use a comparison from harmonic balancers on a crankshaft, which do pretty much the same thing, using the old standard of a rubber sleeve pressed between an inner and outer hub, you get something similar to the Riva unit. Even though the designs are different, it uses rubber for the vibration/shockload dampening element.
    If you compare what would be considered an upgrade from that style, you probably would go the the Fluidampr, which has been proven to be superior at absorbing crankshaft harmonics. This style has an inner 360 degree rotating steel ring that floats in a heavy silicone fluid inside the balancer housing. This design has been dyno tested to make more HP and therefore eliminates much more crankshaft deflection in Hi HP engines. Once again the design is different, but both use fluid as their dampening element.
    Vibrations are simply frequencies, and the trick is to absorb the frequency. When you accomplish that, you break less parts.. Its that simple..
    Also, any time you have a driven gear system like this setup is, weight is also very important. Less driven gear rotating weight = less drive gear load and inertia shockloads.
    Interesting thoughts Ross.

    I am shocked you replied first. Reason is as I was writing the original post, I remembered your posting quite a while ago in your build thread that while these 1.8 sho/fz motors accelerate EXTREMELY fast, they decelerate just as fast. The R&D description describes a "Dual Action" clutch and I wonder how this would help in the deceleration department...

  4. #4
    gordon lasiter #328's Avatar
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    my concerns on this has to do with how many clutch devices do we need?
    there is the superclutch by r&d as well as the clutch drive gear as well as the oem clutch.
    both aftermarket clutches require adjustment as well as replacing the clutch washers.
    i guess time will tell.on.what the winning combo is!

  5. #5
    Should help both accell and decell Craig..Both appear they will dampen in both directions.. And your right Gordon, time will tell which works the best..

  6. #6
    Bounty Hunter Carlos Thomas's Avatar
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    Having to adjust them is for the birds. I prefer the low maintenance option.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Thomas View Post
    Having to adjust them is for the birds. I prefer the low maintenance option.
    +1 . im an engineer but when you are doing it day in day out i dont want to do it when i get home just want to ride it... alot.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by razzie View Post
    +1 . im an engineer but when you are doing it day in day out i dont want to do it when i get home just want to ride it... alot.
    Im a mechanic, i dont even service my own pickup truck. The ski gets worked on by me and me only, but not a chance i want to have a clutch that needs adjustment...Like you said, RIDE it!

  9. #9
    hitman's Avatar
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    I bet I could throw in the superclutch (shaft system, not drive gear), adjust it one time with my little old C3 wheel, and never mess with it again. The SC comes off in less than 5 minutes and you can adjust the slip (if you need to) almost just as fast. The kit comes with tools to do it.

    My only opinion is this. A system that "slips" seems like it is capable of absorbing more shock/inertia than a system that "bounces". Take a rubber ball, bounce it on the ground. What happens? It comes right back up, almost just as high depending on the force it hits the ground with. Every action has an equal an opposing reaction.

    R&D only has two systems out for the absolute ultimate in high boost setups. Just the Superclutch alone should be plenty for most of you guys. And it includes the shaft which will improve the overall life of the SC internal componets. If you do the Riva Gen III shaft AND the dampner gear, you are over the price of just the Superclutch.

    That being said, I have heard good things about the Riva dampner so far. I have no first hand experience with it though. So my opinion is just that. An opinion.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitman View Post
    I bet I could throw in the superclutch (shaft system, not drive gear), adjust it one time with my little old C3 wheel, and never mess with it again. The SC comes off in less than 5 minutes and you can adjust the slip (if you need to) almost just as fast. The kit comes with tools to do it.

    My only opinion is this. A system that "slips" seems like it is capable of absorbing more shock/inertia than a system that "bounces". Take a rubber ball, bounce it on the ground. What happens? It comes right back up, almost just as high depending on the force it hits the ground with. Every action has an equal an opposing reaction.

    R&D only has two systems out for the absolute ultimate in high boost setups. Just the Superclutch alone should be plenty for most of you guys. And it includes the shaft which will improve the overall life of the SC internal componets. If you do the Riva Gen III shaft AND the dampner gear, you are over the price of just the Superclutch.

    That being said, I have heard good things about the Riva dampner so far. I have no first hand experience with it though. So my opinion is just that. An opinion.
    Todd it is not like a rubber ball.

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