Page 1 of 18 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 173
  1. #1
    VinceC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Palmetto, Florida, United States
    Posts
    727
    +1
    56

    ECU Reflash Disturbing

    I have been trying to understand all that I can about ECU's and reflashing. Correct me if I am wrong...I send my current ski setup information (mods) along with typical riding conditions plus some other options and somebody at V-Tech, R&D or elsewhere takes my ECU that I have sent to them and either wipes it or modifies it with new information that controls fuel flow, timing, etc. Maps (or profiles) have been developed so that minor modifications by a engineer can be made and then imaged onto the ECU provided by the customer. All of this is digital information on a regular computer that is then copied to the ECU. The ECU hardware itself costs about $1,200 and the programmer charges $749 to upload a program to it! You have got to be kidding me.

    This is software. Why isn't anyone ripping and redistributing it like any other software....DVD's, music, whatever?

    Something I just don't quite get. If I have a buddy that has a FX SHO and he changed is intake grate, ride plate and wants to up his rpm whats to stop me from buying the reflash, copying it and then transferring it onto my buddy's ecu and splitting the cost. And then splitting it again.

    Sorry but $749 will buy some kickass software out in the world. This isn't rocket science.

    Or do I have it wrong. It isn't pirate'ing because they haven't written any code or developed any proprietary tools. I know I'm wrong here but where?


  2. #2
    mjh3ides's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Florida
    Posts
    6,804
    +1
    2,017
    I don't know what the software & interface hardware cost to be able to do it yourself, but I'm assuming much of the cost associated with doing these reflashes comes from the time & testing invested into developing the tunes & the customer support that comes with them. To give you a comparison, I just paid $900 for a reflash for my 986 Porsche, & I've seen them as high as $3K for turbo 911's.

    It also looks like R&D uses some type of encryption to keep people from doing what you want to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Hulk View Post
    ...I do not have the specs of the R&D tuning, nor am I able to read any ECU that has been programmed by R&D as they are locked out after tuning. With that said, if any of you guys already have the R&D ECU on your ski I would not be able to program it with V-Tech...
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/show...ghlight=v-tech

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    the moon
    Posts
    862
    +1
    19
    it probobaly is to cover development costs and time for the designers to sit and write these programs then test. i do fully agree with you , but if you do take the plunge and do it yourself and your engine fails its one very expensive repair bill.

  4. #4
    VinceC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Palmetto, Florida, United States
    Posts
    727
    +1
    56
    I am just thinking aloud in this post. I am in the technology business and I have engineers and programmers working all day (and night) making stuff work. But I know that in time the costs diminish and that I had better pass that along to the marketplace. My advantage comes because each revision of software becomes better and cheaper to design than the previous. Seems rather coincidental that V-Tech and R&D charge the same amounts for their reflash. No doubt they have built poison into their software to prevent copying but that is really no barrier. Setups for high performance cars are way more complicated and offset by the fact they sell in much greater volumes. They are also selling to a higher income clientele than typical ski dudes.

  5. #5
    txgp1300r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Dallas , Texas
    Posts
    3,382
    +1
    165
    Why dont you ask Green Hulk , there is more too it than just a re-flash....the ECU's have a protection curcuit that has to be eliminated in order to write to it. imho

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Tampa
    Posts
    423
    +1
    7
    Its all about supply and demand.

    Microsoft Office 2007 is used by millions, so the price is relatively low.

    The software we use at the office is used by a few hundred around the world and costs a million dollars for a 5 year contract.

  7. #7
    Addicted Member 5001craig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Northeast Indiana
    Posts
    2,924
    +1
    11
    This exact same topic has been discussed in several threads in the past. Here's a good one from '09:

    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/show...&highlight=ecu

  8. #8
    RichieFZR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    2,093
    +1
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceC View Post
    The ECU hardware itself costs about $1,200 and the programmer charges $749 to upload a program to it! You have got to be kidding me.

    This is software. Why isn't anyone ripping and redistributing it like any other software....DVD's, music, whatever?
    Is this guy kidding me? Yeah mate go rip software like your DVD's and plug into your PWC. Good call.

    If the hardware was 1,200 bucks where can I find it???? Oh and the software to read and write to the ECU where can I find that also????

  9. #9
    AWA MEMBER
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Currituck, North Carolina, United States
    Posts
    4,616
    +1
    247
    I think the Tech support from Vtech and R&D is superior......Im happy with the results from my Vtech stage 2 programming

  10. #10
    Site Admin Green Hulk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Morgan City, LA
    Posts
    36,398
    +1
    2,524
    VinceC, there's way more to it than you think there is . There's some good info on the links posted above.
    It takes an extreme amount of time to develop safe maps for these skis at different modification levels. There's no guesswork involved. All of that time and effort put into writing these tunes drives up cost. If you understood the research and development put into these tunes you would understand why V-Tech and R&D charge $750 for this service.

    Since you are into software a good analogy for you would be why does a copy of Microsoft office cost hundreds of dollars when the CD it's burned on only costs about one cent? You are paying for the technology.

Page 1 of 18 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. powerchip ecu reflashing
    By allstar71 in forum Yamaha PWC Performance (4-stroke)
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 05-13-2009, 07:36 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-02-2009, 01:29 PM
  3. Rotax Racing Ecu Reflash
    By Sundance in forum 4-Tec Performance
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 03-14-2008, 02:00 PM
  4. 250x KDS software & ecu reflash
    By born riding in forum Kawasaki PWC Performance (4-stroke)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-04-2008, 08:26 PM
  5. RR ECU reflash
    By Lurker in forum 4-Tec Performance
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-29-2006, 09:14 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •