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Thread: MSX 110 Smoking

  1. #1
    RedRocket007's Avatar
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    MSX 110 Smoking

    Gday all, I have been searching this forum for a couple of weeks to try and diagnose the problem I am having with my PWC, no-one seems to be having the exact same symptoms I am having, so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction:

    I have a 2004 MSX 110 that I recently swapped for my old ski boat. The PWC will always do over 55mph at WOT and revs to over 7500rpm, boost gauge go's to max when at WOT or close to, starts fine every time, acceleration is always smooth and idles perfectly...BUT after I have run at WOT or close to for a short time then go to idle the PWC spews a lot of smoke out of the exhaust, the smoke defiantly smells like oil burning and has a white/grey look to it. The smoke only comes out of the exhaust, with no sign of smoke in the engine bay.
    Looking through the forums I have conducted the following faultfinding:

    - The ski has defiantly been overfilled with oil in the past, but not run for very long. (has 15w-50 oil in it)

    - A few days ago I checked the oil for correct level as per instructions on this forum (watercraft level, flush device on, started engine for 30 seconds with water running through, stopped engine, oil was at 'MIN' mark on dipstick)
    Took PWC for a 40Mile trip down the river (spewing smoke again when at Idle)
    Next day checked oil as per procedure and oil was just OFF the end of the dipstick (assume it is burning the oil ?)

    - Took hoses off intercooler, all looks clean inside (pictures attached)

    - Took both MAP sensors off, cleaned and replaced (picture attached)

    - Took hose from exhaust silencer to resonator off, no oil present

    - Turbo Wastegate moving freely, but there seems to be a bit of black 'stuff' that has sprayed on the inside of the hull next to wastegate arm (picture attached)

    - The engine is clean apart from that with no visible leaks and the bottom inside of the hull is spotless so nothing looks like it is leaking


    I have printed copies of the operator manual/service manual/parts diagram/service bulletins and many pages from the forum with useful tips

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated



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  2. #2
    Kosh's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum, although your first reply will be not what you want to hear. On evidence presented I would suspect that the turbo is leaking oil at the exhaust sealing ring. If I am correct it will get worse over time until it will keep smoking.
    If this ends up being the problem Precision Sports has upgraded versions that are much better than original.

  3. #3
    SPEED KILLS, BUT YOU GET THERE QUICKER Keddano's Avatar
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    First off, Welcome to the Hulk...Second off, Kosh from your country has a great insite and knowledge on your ski (one of the best on this forum). I'm no expert on the turbo's, but my first thoughts were you have seals on the turbo leaking. we have some other experts on them on here and they should be chime in I would think.

  4. #4
    Kosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keddano View Post
    First off, Welcome to the Hulk...Second off, Kosh from your country has a great insite and knowledge on your ski (one of the best on this forum). I'm no expert on the turbo's, but my first thoughts were you have seals on the turbo leaking. we have some other experts on them on here and they should be chime in I would think.
    Thankyou for the compliment Keddano , I try to help out when I can, the Webber in the MSX can be a bit finiky but once understood is just a reliable as any other.

    Cheers

  5. #5
    Matrix 4-Tec spannerspencer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosh View Post
    Welcome to the forum, although your first reply will be not what you want to hear. On evidence presented I would suspect that the turbo is leaking oil at the exhaust sealing ring. If I am correct it will get worse over time until it will keep smoking.
    If this ends up being the problem Precision Sports has upgraded versions that are much better than original.
    +1 i recently changed my turbo

  6. #6
    RedRocket007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosh View Post
    Welcome to the forum, although your first reply will be not what you want to hear. On evidence presented I would suspect that the turbo is leaking oil at the exhaust sealing ring. If I am correct it will get worse over time until it will keep smoking.
    If this ends up being the problem Precision Sports has upgraded versions that are much better than original.


    Thanks everyone for the info, my first though was a leaking turbo. Is there any way I can verify it ? is there a way to actually check the turbo seals, Also if the turbo has to be replaced does the whole engine have to come out in order to change it ?
    Kosh, you mentioned you have upgraded the turbo on your MSX150 from precision sports, what sort of dollars would I be looking at and was the delivery charge very expensive ?. Would you recommend the ECU reflash also ?
    Thanks again

  7. #7
    Kosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRocket007 View Post
    Thanks everyone for the info, my first though was a leaking turbo. Is there any way I can verify it ? is there a way to actually check the turbo seals, Also if the turbo has to be replaced does the whole engine have to come out in order to change it ?
    Kosh, you mentioned you have upgraded the turbo on your MSX150 from precision sports, what sort of dollars would I be looking at and was the delivery charge very expensive ?. Would you recommend the ECU reflash also ?
    Thanks again
    Difficult to verify an exhaust oil leak without pulling the rear section of the manifold and to do that you really need to pull the exhaust manifold off the motor. The motor needs to be unbolted and sat on it's side in the hull to do this, although I have seen examples of it been done in situ
    The upgrade Precision Sports turbo is the only one to go for, I doubt you would pick up a standard one any cheaper and even then I would recommend the upgrade for longevity.
    With out doubt the ecu you will notice a performance gain along with good fuel economy. Even better with the bigger turbo.
    Email Martin for a quote, he does a good price on freight

  8. #8
    Matrix 4-Tec spannerspencer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRocket007 View Post
    Thanks everyone for the info, my first though was a leaking turbo. Is there any way I can verify it ? is there a way to actually check the turbo seals, Also if the turbo has to be replaced does the whole engine have to come out in order to change it ?
    Kosh, you mentioned you have upgraded the turbo on your MSX150 from precision sports, what sort of dollars would I be looking at and was the delivery charge very expensive ?. Would you recommend the ECU reflash also ?
    Thanks again

    have a look at these thread links for photos:


    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/show...spannerspencer


    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/show...spannerspencer


    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/show...spannerspencer

  9. #9

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    Lots of good info here. Two quick questions though. What are the hours on the ski and has a compression test been done? Turbos have an uncanny ability to mask other problems such as low compression and high hours. It would be a major bummer to go through all the trouble of replacing the turbo to only discover that was not the issue in the first place.

  10. #10

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    The good old days of a compression test anwering all the questions is over!
    With a 4-stroke, you can have decent compression, and still have a hard starting, poor running or smoking problem. You need to perform a leakdown test to see whats really going on inside.

    I'm not trying to steal this thread, but I offer reasonably priced leakdown testers, Turbocharger kits, and Weber engine parts at www.weberpower.com.

    If you remove the airbox, and gently lift the turbocharger compressor wheel up & down it will give you an idea of how much lineal movement is in the turbocharger bearings & seals. This wont tell you everything, but will give you an idea of the turbocharger general condition. A Weber engine can last anywhere from 150-300 hours (average), depending upon care & use.

    Regards,
    Randy

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