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  1. #1

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    Complete PWC rookie - Yamaha or SeaDoo?

    I know this is a Yamaha section, so obviously I'm going to hear Yamaha I was just hoping I could get some actual specific reasons instead of "closed loop cooling sucks" and "superchargers = problems", and actually get some pro's and con's to one another, like actual MPG difference, big maintenance differences, tidal used comparison etc. I'm stuck between the 2012 GTR 215 and the 2012 FX HO, not the cruiser or SC model.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated


  2. #2
    Yamaha artisan Cutlass's Avatar
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    The biggest maintenance difference I can think of off hand is the 100hour supercharger rebuild cost. Its about $300 just for the kit plus what ever the labor is unless you buy the tools and do it yourself. That is of course if your supercharger makes to 100 hours without blowing up. Most do make it but some don't. And if it doesn't make it...you'll most likely be pulling the engine out and tearing it down a bit to pull out the pieces. Worst case scernario, you'll be rebuilding the engine. Best case, you'll just catch the supercharger clutch slipping but not grenaded. I'm not 100% up to date on SeaPoo's superchargers but I've heard they are better then the old ones. And plus there are plenty of good reliability upgrades you can do right off the bat to help keep you out of trouble.

  3. #3
    YoYamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeJMarco View Post
    I know this is a Yamaha section, so obviously I'm going to hear Yamaha I was just hoping I could get some actual specific reasons instead of "closed loop cooling sucks" and "superchargers = problems", and actually get some pro's and con's to one another, like actual MPG difference, big maintenance differences, tidal used comparison etc. I'm stuck between the 2012 GTR 215 and the 2012 FX HO, not the cruiser or SC model.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated
    The first question is, why would you be "stuck" comparing a super charged Sea-Doo to a non-SC Yamaha?
    Beyond that, most of the peeps here have not had a chance to ride the 2012 models yet, and that's what you really need to do. Test ride them both then decide which one suits you better.

    My contention is the Sea-Doos are always going to provide more bells and whistles; for example the 2012 GTR comes with a sophisticated neutral, plus electric trim (VTS) and a nifty braking feature that really works (I personally tested it on the RXT-X). Closed loop cooling is a big plus if you plan on lots of salt water use.

    But the Yamahas are going to be more durable. Rental operations around the world choose Yamaha almost exclusively because of this durability. Also, Yamaha is adding more features every year; for example the 2012 FX HO now comes with a mechanical neutral. I believe the 2012 GTR has been beefed up to compete with Yamaha's VXR; a remarkable non-supercharged ski that sips fuel and can pull over 66 mph bone stock without a supercharger. You might want to at least consider the VXR or perhaps a supercharged Yamaha. And remember, dealers will often have dusty left-over models sitting around with zero hours that can save you thousands over a 2012 model; you can probably find a 2009-2011 FZS for under $10K if you look around. Here are a couple of reviews...

    2012 Sea-Doo GTR 215 Review
    http://www.personalwatercraft.com/ma...view-1070.html

    2012 FX HO Review
    http://www.boattest.com/boats/boat_video.aspx?id=2599

  4. #4
    ProZadoX's Avatar
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    The 2012 Sea-Doo supercharger maintenance is NOW at... 200hrs, no longer 100.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoYamma View Post
    The first question is, why would you be "stuck" comparing a super charged Sea-Doo to a non-SC Yamaha?
    Beyond that, most of the peeps here have not had a chance to ride the 2012 models yet, and that's what you really need to do. Test ride them both then decide which one suits you better.

    My contention is the Sea-Doos are always going to provide more bells and whistles; for example the 2012 GTR comes with a sophisticated neutral, plus electric trim (VTS) and a nifty braking feature that really works (I personally tested it on the RXT-X). Closed loop cooling is a big plus if you plan on lots of salt water use.

    But the Yamahas are going to be more durable. Rental operations around the world choose Yamaha almost exclusively because of this durability. Also, Yamaha is adding more features every year; for example the 2012 FX HO now comes with a mechanical neutral. I believe the 2012 GTR has been beefed up to compete with Yamaha's VXR; a remarkable non-supercharged ski that sips fuel and can pull over 66 mph bone stock without a supercharger. You might want to at least consider the VXR or perhaps a supercharged Yamaha. And remember, dealers will often have dusty left-over models sitting around with zero hours that can save you thousands over a 2012 model; you can probably find a 2009-2011 FZS for under $10K if you look around. Here are a couple of reviews...

    2012 Sea-Doo GTR 215 Review
    http://www.personalwatercraft.com/ma...view-1070.html

    2012 FX HO Review
    http://www.boattest.com/boats/boat_video.aspx?id=2599
    Yeah, that's where I'm stuck. If I was going to get to put TONS of hours on it, I would jump right to the Yamaha FX HO, mainly to avoid a SuperCharger. I get to get down the shore from around May - September, in which I probably wouldn't even want to ride past mid September as it's usually not too good here and when I do get down during that time frame, it's only on weekends, sometimes every other, so running up hours would take a NICE amount of time. I would always try and avoid a super/turbo on any vehicle that would be a DD or see lots of use, even though I keep up on maintenance on everything I own. Also, whatever I choose will probably NEVER touch freshwater. I live in Philadelphia and we have a shore home, so all of my use would be outlet/bay/ocean, which is why the closed loop cooling system came off as an immediate plus. I don't know anything about hull vs hull, so I didn't know the advantages of the GTR 215's hull vs the FX HO hull for bay and ocean riding.

    I grew up on Yamaha dirtbikes, I've been stunting and racing Honda since the moment I had my driver's license. I generally become familiar with a product and tend to stay with it, for instance how my dirt toys will always be Yamaha, Honda for the road and now I'm new to the water and SeaDoo is a completely new company to me, which is where a big part of my hesitation comes

    Guys keep telling me that the GTR has a flat hull and will be a bouncy wet ride and the FX HO would cut through noticeably better?

  6. #6
    YoYamma's Avatar
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    Well I'm not sure but at first glance, the new GTX hull looks very similar to the new RXP-X hull.
    It's a totally new supercharged model in their musclecraft category; you can see it racing next to the RXP-X on one of the photos here:
    http://www.sea-doo.com/showroom/wate...w/gtr-215.aspx

    If you want a non-supercharged Sea-Doo that would be the GTI or GTS; my neighbor just got one of those and it's a pretty nice looking unit.

    The Yamaha FX series handles the chop very well, better than the FZ series. This is why I said test ride them both then decide which one suits you better. The last time I was in the market was 2010; at that time not being able to get a 5 year warranty on the Sea-Doo in Florida was a deal breaker. Yamaha had no problem backing their product for 5 years.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoYamma View Post
    Well I'm not sure but at first glance, the new GTX hull looks very similar to the new RXP-X hull.
    It's a totally new supercharged model in their musclecraft category; you can see it racing next to the RXP-X on one of the photos here:
    http://www.sea-doo.com/showroom/wate...w/gtr-215.aspx

    If you want a non-supercharged Sea-Doo that would be the GTI or GTS; my neighbor just got one of those and it's a pretty nice looking unit.

    The Yamaha FX series handles the chop very well, better than the FZ series. This is why I said test ride them both then decide which one suits you better. The last time I was in the market was 2010; at that time not being able to get a 5 year warranty on the Sea-Doo in Florida was a deal breaker. Yamaha had no problem backing their product for 5 years.
    Yeah, the SeaDoo would be 1 + 3, a 4 year total from Seadoo, or a 1+4, 4 years from RPM-One.
    How do you feel the GTR would be in bay/ocean use? Not crazy weather or anything.

  8. #8
    YoYamma's Avatar
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    I have no idea how the GTR performs in the ocean.
    I've never heard of RPM-One, but I wouldn't give you a plugged nickel for a third party warranty.
    From my perspective, the question you should be asking is why won't Sea-Doo back their stuff for 5 years.
    At the end of the day, if you drop a valve on that supercharged Sea-Doo at 4+ years, you're looking at a potential $7K for decent parts and certified labor to rebuild it. At that point, it won't matter how the hull felt on the ocean...

  9. #9
    surferd15's Avatar
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    Not true

    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlass View Post
    The biggest maintenance difference I can think of off hand is the 100hour supercharger rebuild cost. Its about $300 just for the kit plus what ever the labor is unless you buy the tools and do it yourself. That is of course if your supercharger makes to 100 hours without blowing up. Most do make it but some don't. And if it doesn't make it...you'll most likely be pulling the engine out and tearing it down a bit to pull out the pieces. Worst case scernario, you'll be rebuilding the engine. Best case, you'll just catch the supercharger clutch slipping but not grenaded. I'm not 100% up to date on SeaPoo's superchargers but I've heard they are better then the old ones. And plus there are plenty of good reliability upgrades you can do right off the bat to help keep you out of trouble.
    Its 200 hours now and the new units make it...only the older ceramics blew up....he's asking about a new ski so give him USEFUL information..

  10. #10
    surferd15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeJMarco View Post
    Yeah, the SeaDoo would be 1 + 3, a 4 year total from Seadoo, or a 1+4, 4 years from RPM-One.
    How do you feel the GTR would be in bay/ocean use? Not crazy weather or anything.
    Being from NJ myself and riding in the Barnegat Bay area and owning a GTR I can help ya with that one. The GTR and VXR are lighter then most of all the other watercrafts so they tend to bounce more/come unhooked more in chop/swell, however the GTR has trim which helps it over the VXR. When you go in the ocean especially in NJ there's almost always waves/swells so you won't go in the ocean to do high speed runs but usually to wave jump etc.. (at least that's me anyway). The bay does get choppy especially in the afternoon and the GTR will bounce out of the water more then the heavier FXHO. The GTR offers ALOT of features for the money, looks badass/better then the FX, has IBR, electronic neutral/reverse. The Fxho has a good motor, comes with more luxury items (cupholders, cruise assist,no wake mode, reboarding step) but uses a mechanical neutral/reverse, has a large 18.9 gallon tank go farther but more money at the pump. Both have almost the same storage. I like the look of the GTR better-IMO. The gas consumption isn't really that bad on the GTR and when I have to rebuild the SC, I''ll prob swap it anyways. I would sit on both skis and see which one feels more comfortable and fits you better. Its a shame you don't live down here in FL since Riva is having an open ride event. Seadoo is offering a ride event in Northern NJ, not sure about any Yamaha events. You will prob get a better financing rate with Yamaha then Seadoo. So those are things to consider.

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