05-29-2012, 02:21 PM #1
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Another Crank but no start ('04 STX 15F)...
Another crank but no start issue, with similar symptoms as Droopy... (thanks for posting your findings!)
Unfortunately, yesterday, my rock solid and reliable '04 15F, finally let me down. It started up well, but when it came time to ride.. it died and wouldnt start.
My ski has about 50 hrs, and was used about half half on freshwater and saltwater... but always cared for after each run. Last time out was 7 months ago. Ran perfect.
Anyway, I just installed R&D hi-flow muffler setup w/ the water bypass, and also a Marine K&N intake setup. I emptied the old gas, and filled it full of fresh 91 octane.
Battery was on a tender about 90% of the time, and cranked well. (It's a Yuasa battery I bought new, but it's now about 5yrs old)
Here's what happened:
-I installed R&D hi-flow exh kit, and K&N intake. Rerouted cooling lines (as per exh kit says).
-I test started at home the night before the trip. No problem.
-Test started the morning of the trip (to lake), no problem.
-Got the ski off the trailer and rode the ski over to the anchoring area near our eazy-up tent. No problem.
-Started up fine and my friend got on (I was on my Honda F15X) and we were slowly riding over to get out of the no-wake zone....
-Halfway to the main riding area, and the STX 15F died. Cranked well, (2-3 cranks and the batt alarm goes off), but resets when you flip the orange key.
-A good description would be like a carburated dirt bike, after you shut the fuel tank valve... it runs ok for a little, then runs dry in the carb and dies...
except the ski is FI~
Rest of the day.. it just cranks strong, and no fire whatsoever. I tried again when I got home, and same thing.
At the lake, I inspected all the connectors, and they all looked ok, and connected.
Spark plugs could be changed. Seems like the bottom ends of the plugs have very mild corrosion (Denso Iridium), but the iridium tips were clean.
Plugs had some fuel smell to it, so it seemed fuel was shooting.
I did move the electric panel above the battery around (the one w/ 3 bolts) when removing the 2nd muffler,
but it still started up just fine after I finished the exhast mod..
I'll be doing the following:
-Leak down test (I need to get a hold of an air compressor), and what's the best way to turn the crank for TDC on each cylinder?
-New spark plugs
-Injector cleaning @ RC engineering
-possibly new battery
... and we'll go from there. I know Droopy ended up changing his ISC and pistons/rings... but man, I hope it's not that bad.
05-29-2012, 08:20 PM #2
Check the fuses first before you start on tearing her apart
05-29-2012, 09:04 PM #3
That battery is way past its normal operating age.
I would have it load tested to make sure your getting enough juice to crank it correctly.
It might not have enough constant power to keep up with the ecu.
05-30-2012, 11:42 AM #4
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
kerlow66, so I only found 1 fuse on a connecter, located above the battery (near ECU). Could you please inform me where the other fuses could be? I search all over and never found a typical fuse box.
Wotxxxsd, I've once heard that Yuasa's on tenders can last up to 10 yrs or so... I guess that's a bunch of hooey. I have to admit, though, it cranks the starter pretty well, and I don't understand why a running motor would die because of the battery.
I would think the stator should be able to keep the engine going once started... no? But anyway, when hooked up to the tenders last night, it is taking a long time to get to the green light. I think a new battery will definitely be on order soon regardless.
Just curious, but does anyone know what this sensor is: 27010-3785 (Fuel Injection group, switch,sensor).
It's strange because my motor seems to crank well, yet feels like something is disconnected, or something electrical. No trouble codes come up either on the dash.
05-31-2012, 12:51 PM #5
Yep a good start would be a fresh battery,the fuse is located on the r/h side of the ski, its bolted to the regulator bracket with a single fuse holder(brown).Also check the battery cable leads,grounds are tight.my ski had a similar issue with yours and it turned out to be a bad fuel pump.
Btw i'll be picking up your prop tomorrow
05-31-2012, 02:25 PM #6
Whenever something goes wrong on a machine that has been perfectly working fine, THINK what you recently did on it.
That's where the soultion is.
It's very likely that your new problem is caused by either your intake or exhaust mod you just did.
Go back to OEM setup on either of above, one at a time. And see if the problem would be resolved.
I bet on the exhaust.
05-31-2012, 03:10 PM #7
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Symptoms do "seem" like it can be fuel related. Im going to change the filter, and get the injectors cleaned. I guess a fuel pressure check will be in order too.
Like many here, I am mechanically inclined, and have built several engines (automotive, marine, motorcycle, etc)... and tuned big turbo, nitrous, standalone ecu's, etc...
I'm hoping to get as many clues in this case as to what kind of problems others have had, so I can consider those as well.
Meangreenman, As for the mods I did... my first thought was exactly that... however, I'm puzzled because they are the exact same mods I've done on my previous 12F before with no problems...
so I conveniently assumed they were ok, or done right. I went back and checked, and rechecked several times to make sure everything was on right.
The only other mod I did (first time on my ski) is the R&D valve cover block off covers... but I can't imagine that would cause this, but it is easy to put back to stock... so.. maybe i'll try it.
This week is insane at work, so I'm going to have to trouble shoot over the weekend. I'm hoping to get a good checklist to troubleshoot this problem.
My battery has been fully charged and topped off... and I have another "younger" battery full charged to test on it too.
My intuition sort of tells me the fuel pump "could" be a problem here too. When I turn on the orange key, I don't hear the fuel pump activate, nor feel anything (vibration, etc) in the feed line.
(This was just a crude check back at the lake).
I just hope it's nothing internal...
05-31-2012, 03:24 PM #8
I don't know how much experience you have on Kawi 4-stroke skis as far as engine and electronics go, but the 12F/15F fuel pump is either WORKING or NOT WORKING. There is no such thing as lack of flow or semi-working for the pump. Now, the filters can cause that symptom if clogged up (but you really have to have lots of trash and/or old fuel that became gelly in the fuel to do that). \
If you can't hear the whizzing sound when the fuel pump is prming for the first 3 secodns when you turn on the ignition key, just disconnect the fuel line at the injector fuel rail and check.
I bet your 15F starts AND runs perfectly as long as it's on the trailer.
If so, what does that tell you?
05-31-2012, 04:28 PM #9
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
MGM... You got me. I don't have much experience working on Kawi 4stroke ski's... but I guess I'm lucky to say this is the first time I ever had any problems with them.
I do use Stabil in my fuel.. but who knows if that really works, or for how long. I've seen gasoline 3 yrs old w/ no treatment work fine firing (I bet with some loss of power maybe?),
yet I've had carbs with clogged jets with 6 month old gas.
Sometimes, I've seen old fuel pumps activate w/ a shake or jolt... but even when I got home... w/ the ski on the trailer... no luck. Just cranks.
Anyway, it was too noisy at the lake to listen for the pump to prime (which is what i was looking for.. and trying to feel for (by touch/vibration).
I'll be checking the fuel system for sure and I'd appreciate any tips from the findings...
So... you got me on the riddle. I guess working 14hr days isnt helping me.
Btw... after cranking cranking cranking (w/ no start)... when I let go of the start button... I hear multiple clicks (like relays)... it clicks like 4-6 times after cranking. Is this normal?
05-31-2012, 05:59 PM #10
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