07-18-2012, 10:54 PM #1
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
MSX110 Runs Out of Water-Stalls in Water?
I can run MSX110 from hose..machine starts and throttles up...
Put MSX110 in water...machine starts...I may get a few seconds of throttle control then stays at idle for several minutes..then stalls.
After reading here.. I checked water pump by looking into coolant container and DID observe water being fed into it.
I have cleaned MAP sensors and spark plugs. Interestingly I found this water oil combination on one spark plug.
If you look at the base of the left plug..a water-oil ??? residue is present. Dunno?
This machine ran great for the first season I had her..then after one Michigan winter..this.
There was talk here of a Intercooler cooling tube being bad...Dunno
Any help, suggestions or advice would be appreciated. Thanks
Last edited by K447; 07-23-2012 at 09:54 PM.
07-19-2012, 10:27 AM #2
Welcome to Green Hulk!
I gotta say, those plugs don't look good. When did you pull them to take that picture? Had you just run the engine? Or had it just stalled? Or been sitting and engine is cold?
Yeah... that looks like water on that plug. I'd first start pulling the turbo-to-intercooler hose and the intercooler-to-intake hose/pipe and have a look. Are any of these hoses or pipes wet inside? Or have a coating of oil in them? Get a flashlight and peek into the intercooler and see if you see any water/milking foam/wetness in there. Pull the throttle body off the intake and peek down in there too. Is it wet in there? Oily?
It's possible, I've heard of someone else with the issue, to have a leaking water line inside the intercooler. This could be a source of water getting into your engine. Another could be a blown head gasket, but that would be coolant, not raw water and so you would likely see your coolant level drop over time... or contamination get into the coolant (like oil) and see it in the coolant resevior.
Where are you keeping your oil level? It needs to be below the MIN mark when cold. Cold engine, start for 30 secs, turn off, unscrew dipstick, wipe, insert dipstick (do not thread it in), pull, read)... should be just barely on the stick... below MIN. Too high oil levels commonly result in foaming oil and it get sucked back into the intake tract through the oil tank cyclone recirc hose to the airbox.
Do you see any foamy oil on the dipstick? Do you see any oil floating in the coolant in the coolant reservoir bottle?
Another thing to consider too... often cleaning MAP sensors doesn't get them back to normal. I've heard most people have to replace them. They are the same ones from '06 Chevy Cobalt SS.
07-19-2012, 02:04 PM #3
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
First off. THANKS for responding!!!
1. Engine had just been run
2. I looked and there was moisture..not accumulated water but moisture with the whitish foamy oil-water combination. What is the solution to repair/clean the hoses and inter-cooler?
3. Coolant level has not drastically decreased. No signs of oil in coolant,
4. Oil level COLD is right at bottom of Min line. I am looking for oil extraction tool to take just a bit more out... is there a way to clean out the existing oil residule?
5. Yes there was a foamy oil on dipstick.
6. I will try to replace MAP instead of cleaning them.
7. Question: Would these potential items cause the ski to run with hose attached and not in the water...? And why?
8. Question: Others have stated the water pump is not under load and therefore runs out of the water but not in..that does not make sense to me. It's pushing coolant as I can see when peaking into the reservoir and spied the swirling action
9. Observation: Not being a mechanic, but it seems when muffler is submerged in the water it stalls the engine. Like maybe a nest of mice in there...? Sound feasible?
07-19-2012, 06:37 PM #4
1. Okay... run on the hose? So is that water on the plugs in the picture? They sorta looked wet. How long had it run? Long enough to warm up?
2. Hmm... where was this foamy junk? In the turbo-to-IC hose? Or the IC-to-intake hose/pipe? I'm wondering if this moisture is coming from the IC... and thus it would not be present in hose from the turbo. Or if the foamy gunk is present throughout... then that sounds like oil ingestion through the oil tank seperator cyclone-to-airbox recirc hose. How about in the intake manifold (a big space to pool there)?
3. Good... probably not a blow headgasket. But I still think you should do a compression test to be sure.
4. No higher than MIN cold should be okay... perhaps a tad high but not bad high. You don't need an extractor tool to pump the oil of of the engine... should you want to remove some or during oil changes. You can pull the fat hose going into the exhaust/passenger side (not one at top) of the oil tank and pull the spark plugs out (so it won't start and easier on the starter) and hit the starter button. Have that hose going into a bottle... a lot of oil will pump out of it when you hit the starter
5. D'oh... if it's foamy... probably has water in it... which could come from water getting in the open vent hole on the oil separator cylcone (side of oil tank) or from a leaking water seal in the oil tank (water flows around tank to cool). Or if it's only a little, could be condensation. After you get this other issue figured out... might try clean oil change and see if it returns.
6. Probably a good idea... if they ever got oil coated.
7. Not sure. The loss of throttle and stalling are odd to me. Even a ski with oily intake tract and fouled MAP sensors will run... just very poorly. And most other issues the ECU detects just puts it in a limp-home mode with only low revs but doesn't stall out. If it's ingesting too much water, I guess this could happen. Or perhaps it's a fueling issue? No load... less fuel needed to rev... under load... take more fuel that for some reason can't be provided??
8. If your not getting an overheating condition... I wouldn't think the water pump is involved. Unless your getting COOLANT in your oil, then it's possible that could be part of the problem What is under load in the water is the jet pump... and this will definitely put a load on the engine as it now has to turn it while pushing water. But I don't see how the jet pump could cause your issue.
9. The exhaust is meant to expel water out along with the exhaust... even below the water. I would be adding a little bit of back pressure to the system when it goes in the water... but as long as it's letting the exhaust out... I would think it unrelated. You could always pull the waterbox/muffler out and check.
07-23-2012, 03:12 PM #5
Just a note on number 4. When removing oil via the pumping with the starter, it would be a good idea to disconnect the main relay (tan one) in the back of the engine compartment. This will disable all the electronics aside from the starter so the injectors will not be trying to put fuel into the cylinders when you are cranking.
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