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07-19-2012, 06:56 PM #1
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
New owner of 2 MSX 110. Need info
Hello I just purchased 2 MSX 110 skis from a private owner. Both skis have LOW hours. one ski with 58 hours and other 42 hours. This is my first PWC I have ever owned or been on at that. What I found was both fuel rails were broke. It is the nipple towards the front thats broke on both skis in the same place. Is that a common issue? Also where can I get this part? Ive been looking for 3 weeks now and everyone is out of stock! I did however modify it and it works 100% but I would like to have replacement rails new or used. I did take the one ski out in the water today and tested it. It ran well for a ski that was sitting for 2 years. I did notice it not having much power at all. I could only get the ski to do 40MPH at the most! The RPM would only go 5500 at the highest. I then brought it back to have my buddy check it out and I noticed a lever wasnt hooked up. It was the lever to the wastegate. I then grabbed the wastegate arm and tried to move it. It moved but it is extremely stiff. Way to stiff to work! I did move it to open position and ran it again hoping it would pick up on the turbo and take off. the turbo did spool up but lost pressure because the gate was stuck open. My question is what would cause the gate to be this stiff??
Any and all info would help with anything on the skis.
07-19-2012, 09:40 PM #2
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
Well after searching for a few hours I found many have this issue. im really surprised no one commented on it. I guess i lube the area and then place a rag around it and soak the rag with oil then let it sit for a few days then work it lose.
07-19-2012, 10:32 PM #3
Welcome to Green Hulk! And welcome to the 2004 MSX 110 and 150 Club!
Did you know you just bought some pretty rare and limited Polaris skis? The German made Weber 4-stroke, twin cylinder, 750cc, turbocharged engines used only in the 2004 MSX 110 and 2004 MSX 150 (NOT MSX 140). This was the last year Polaris made PWCs... so we have one year wonders! So, we're a small group of owners... compared to the masses of folks here who own the Polaris 2-strokers... thus the fewer folks on here to lend you a virtual hand.
That said... these are complex skis. Polaris' only 4-stroke PWCs. Bosch ECU controlled, fuel injected with electronics out the whazoo. And there are hardly any Polaris dealers left that will even service these skis anymore, let alone have the proper diagnosing software and connection cables needed (Digital Wrench). So, there's a lot to learn. You can really help yourself out by getting a copy of the factory service manual online (do a search for Polaris service manuals) and by reading through the very informative posts here in the MSX/Matrix section (ones for MSX110/150).
Now on to your issues. It does sound like you have a stuck wastegate. This is a fairly common and annoying problem. When working properly and hooked up to the wastegate actuator (diaphragm thing)... you should be able to push the wastegate arm downward about an inch... and it should snap back shut via stiff spring pressure (from inside the actuator). If you can move it at all... that's good... start lubing it. Take a small strip of rag and soak it in penetrating oil or ATF or WD40 or oil... and wrap it around the part sticking out of the manifold... where it pivots. Many folks have seized ones that don't move at all so their efforts are even harder and longer.
Not sure how both of your fuel rails broke in the same place... curious. I've only read of one other person with this issue on the forums... so doesn't seem common. There are always a number of 110 and 150s (same rail) being parted out on ebay or sometimes here on this forum... that's where I'd look if I needed one.
So you mentioned running one ski... only running 40mph at ~5500 rpms? This is definitely down on power. A properly running MSX110 should max out around ~56mph @ ~7300 rpms. Sounds like you are having boost issues due to your wastegates and the ECU is limiting your RPMs because it can't control the boost. If the wastegates are stuck closed or semi-closed... then boost would raise above target levels (overboost) and the ECU would start limiting revs to prevent overboost damage. Hopefully your other one will run properly so you can compare them and swap and share parts to ensure things are running right.
A few important things to note. Do NOT overfill them with oil. The oil level checking instructions are WRONG! Having oil at the MAX mark on the dipstick is TOO high and the engine will eventually suck that excess oil back into the intake tract via the oil separator cyclone recirc hose to the airbox. Proper oil level checking is: cold engine, start and run for 30 secs, turn off, unscrew and remove oil dipstick, wipe clean, reinsert but do NOT screw it in, pull out, read level. Should be just barely on the stick and below MIN mark. As the ski warms up the oil will expand and rise higher on the dipstick to the proper level.
Another issue. These skis do NOT take well to being rolled over. This usually results in oil getting sucked/ingested back into the intake tract (as mentioned above). This will coat the hoses, intercooler, and intake manifold plus the 2 MAP sensors (ruining them) with oil and cause very poor running and error codes. Cleaning up all this and getting it back running is a big PITA... search for the topic to read first hand reports.
07-19-2012, 10:47 PM #4
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
Hey thank you Ripcuda!!! I also like the name. Not sure if its for the fish or car? I have a 71 restomod convertible hemi and a 67 with a 360. But if not the car then I might be talking in another language lol.
I have done all you said when I bought them. I am really good at researching things and thats what I did before touching the water with then. The bad thing is I didnt do enough research on them when I bought them. I didnt know they were so rare and now hard to find parts for. But I have modified my fuel rails to never break again. From what ive read the rails break in that spot if you dont disconnect the fuel hoses when cleaning the sensor (pulls on it causing it to break).
However I did find this site and not sure if all these parts will work but I did find new parts.
Im posting pics of my modded rail to show you how I fixed it.
07-20-2012, 11:32 AM #5
**light bulb comes on**
Ah ha... I just say your post on a different forum the other day I was browsing through and read about your fuel rail fix. Well done! I too love fixing things verses buying new ones!
I think you'll find much more Polaris folks hanging out here... although we 4-stroker Polaris guys are few in number.
Glad to hear you did a lot of research and "homework" on the skis. I'm the same way. I'll lurk and read every thread and take notes. Then when I feel I know it right and know enough, I try to lend a virtual hand. Don't feel too bad about your rare skis. At least you have 2 to swap parts between! The biggest obstacle we face is in trouble code reading and erasing. There is no tools other than the dealer only Polaris Digital Wrench that can read codes and clear them... and finding a dealer that still has the PWC cables and will touch them is tough. We do have a good member 'Desperado' who runs Precision Sports out of Quebec, CA that can do great things with our ECUs. I just recenly had him reflash my MSX150 ECU to an upgraded version he created. You do have to mail him your ECU though.
Well... hope your wastegate gets unstuck and your ski runs great. Let us know how the other one runs.
P.S. Yep... Cuda=car. Miss my old '68 Barracuda Fastback. It was a fun car. I'm still a Mopar guy at heart. Got me an SRT-4 as my daily! Sounds like you have a few sweet ones yourself.
07-20-2012, 09:42 PM #6
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
07-21-2012, 11:03 PM #7
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