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  1. #1

    Issues with both my MSX 110 :(

    Grrr I hate issues.

    Ski 1:
    Runs very good for the wastegate being froze shut. No sputters or idle problem at all. The only problem is that stuck wastegate!!! Ive seen many say put a skinny cloth around the neck (something absorbent) and soak it with ATF and PB blaster. I have done that and also moved it back and forth everyday for 5 days now and it is still tight as heck. Am I forgetting something? I dont move it more then 5-8 times a day. Would heating it up help?

    Ski 2:
    Well I finally started to work on it and got the fuel rail fixed and put on. I tried to start it and it would act like it wanted to. I then took the plugs out and they were oil covered extremely bad. I thought maybe the old owner did that to winterize it. Ive seen many do this (put oil down into the bore) to engines they were going to store. But after cleaning the plugs and putting them back in it smoked really bad which I expected for a few minutes. But the smoke kept on going and didnt stop. I put it into the water to give it a good test and the check engine light came on and was only able to go 23 MPH. The only thing I can think of why its smoking so bad is because it sucked water and oil up out of the bottom (ive herd stories of the doing this when rolled over and or leaving a good amount of fluid in the bottom). the other issue with this ski is there is water coming out of the gasket ahead of the wastegate.

    As of now I am about fed up with both skis and want to get rid of them both with the double trailer. just not sure what the package is worth.


  2. #2
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Ski 1:
    The white arrow in this pic points to the part to lube... or to place a strip of soaked cloth to help get some lube to penetrate down into the wastegate shaft. Any sort of oil or lube (PB blaster, WD-40, ATF, oil) should work. When you say it's froze shut and that you move it back and forth... what are you moving? You should be able to grab the wastegate actuator rod (red arrow) and move it downwards about an inch. That's all the further it will move. You will always feel the wastegate spring pulling it back upwards... to shut the wastegate. This heavy spring action on the rod is normal. So yours is not moving at all? I've heard they can be a real bugger when they seize. Heating the manifold right around the shaft should help too.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Ski 2:
    Hmm... sounds like you could have a case of oil ingestion. Pull the turbo-to-intercooler hose... and the intercooler-to-intake hose/pipe and inspect them. Are they all oily inside? Get a flashlight and shine it down in the intercooler. Do you see foamy oil in there? Pull the electronic throttle body and look down into the intake manifold. Do you see gunk in there?

    These engines have a bad habit of sucking oil back from the oil separator/cyclone breather-to-airbox recirc hose. The oil gets foamed either from water getting in it (usually a leaking oil tank or splashed water getting in open vent hole on top of oil separator/cyclone)... or sometimes from a loose baffle in the oil chamber of the oil tank... or from a rollover... or from too much oil in the tank. Then this foamy oil gets sucked back through this emission recirc hose and sucked back into the turbo... and into the intake tract. It coats everything in the intake with a oily mess and the ski will throw a bunch of errors and not run right. You have to end up flushing the intercooler clean (hard to do in the ski... but a pain to remove) and clean all the hoses and usually replace both MAP sensors (the oil seems to ruin them). Then fix the foaming oil cause.

    When you say it's leaking water "ahead of the wastegate"... is this where the turbo exhaust side bolts to the "downpipe" (between the white and red arrows in above pic)? There is water in there. Water goes in either side of the exhaust manifold right off the engine and continues down past the turbo and across the gasket I think you mean and into the "downpipe" and out a water outlet on the bottom. You're only option for that gasket would be to try and tighten it... or if that didn't work, replace it.

    As for selling your skis... not sure what they would be worth... very area dependent. Being a 4-stroke turbo, "modern" style/type of PWC... each would still fetch $1000+ around my area (not including trailer). Where are you located?

    Good luck!

  3. #3
    Thank you Ripcuda! Your always one to post to help.

    Ski 1:
    the white arrow you have is the lever thats a bugger to move/wastegate lever. The linkage isnt hooked up for me to work with it better. it opens tough as heck and closes hard as well. I read that if you can move it with your fingers its ok. Mine is no where that easy yet.

    Ski 2:
    the water is leaking in front of that white arrow/ in front of wastegate lever. Looks like some of the gasket is missing like a chunk came out.

    As for selling them for $1000 I would have to pass. I know once I got the wastegate on ski #1 open it will run really well. Both skis have really low hours. Ski#1 has 57 hours and ski#2 has 46 hours. My thought are that they were never stored well. the guy I got them off of had really bad health problems and let them sit outside for over a year.
    my location is Jersey Shore PA 17740. Im about 20 miles from State collage and 7 miles from Williamsport.

  4. #4
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    #1. Ah... I see. So you can move your wastegate but it's still very tight (unhooked from actuator). Hopefully your continued lubing and moving of the 'gate will loosen it up to normal. At least you got it moving... that's a good start. Not seized tight.

    #2. Well... at least if you ever do have to replace that gasket... you can get to it in the ski. All the bolts aren't too hard to reach except one on the backside by the engine that you gotta do by feel. But I wouldn't worry about a small water leak until you get the bigger issue of oil/water in the intake figured out. Let us know what you find as you dig in there.

    As for selling... I would guess your pair... one running pretty well and the other not so much... plus a double trailer... would be worth around $3000-4000 in my area. Heck, a nice double trailer is $1000 alone around here. But it's a hard sale to unload a pair. Nice location, btw. My hometown is Carlisle, PA... but I'm a long way from Kansas now!

    Cheers!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ripcuda View Post
    #1. Ah... I see. So you can move your wastegate but it's still very tight (unhooked from actuator). Hopefully your continued lubing and moving of the 'gate will loosen it up to normal. At least you got it moving... that's a good start. Not seized tight.

    #2. Well... at least if you ever do have to replace that gasket... you can get to it in the ski. All the bolts aren't too hard to reach except one on the backside by the engine that you gotta do by feel. But I wouldn't worry about a small water leak until you get the bigger issue of oil/water in the intake figured out. Let us know what you find as you dig in there.

    As for selling... I would guess your pair... one running pretty well and the other not so much... plus a double trailer... would be worth around $3000-4000 in my area. Heck, a nice double trailer is $1000 alone around here. But it's a hard sale to unload a pair. Nice location, btw. My hometown is Carlisle, PA... but I'm a long way from Kansas now!

    Cheers!
    Ahhhh I just got back from there a few weeks ago. Got me many parts for my 73 Duster. Yea it seems to be an easy fix but that gasket does leak really bad so I do want to change that. The wastegate lever on that ski works extremely well and I can move it by hand really well. That being said the stiff lever on ski 1 will take some time to get lose. How many times should to move the lever to loosen it up? What I do is move it 5-8 times and lube it one time a day. Should I work with it more?

  6. #6
    Grrr update Grrr!!! that damn weld on that wastegate lever gave up on me and now i have to weld it. Not sure if my little welder is up to the task.

  7. #7
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Dang... that sucks. Good luck with the weld... hope it works. I can't understand why you can move the wastegate, but it's not getting any looser and still remains tight. I would think it would be like a stuck rusty bolt... once you break it free and get some lube on it... it loosens up.

    Ah... the Carlisle car shows and swap meets. I definitely miss those too! I too like Dusters. Used to have a '75 Plymouth Duster "Gold Duster".

    Cheers!

  8. #8
    I got one for you. What about installing a blow off valve instead of bugging with the wastegate? I herd they both do the same thing. I guess a wastegate blows through the exhaust and the BOV lets to much build up pressure out the intake? Would it work?

    I have not touched them because it has been raining non stop here and my garage is full of Mopars.

  9. #9
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffy View Post
    I got one for you. What about installing a blow off valve instead of bugging with the wastegate? I herd they both do the same thing. I guess a wastegate blows through the exhaust and the BOV lets to much build up pressure out the intake? Would it work?

    I have not touched them because it has been raining non stop here and my garage is full of Mopars.
    A garage full of Mopars is not a bad problem to have!

    As for wastegate and BOV... they don't do the same thing. The wastegate opens and allows exhaust gases in the exhaust manifold to bypass the turbo exhaust scroll so it does not spool the turbo and/or stops additional spooling... so boost can't go any higher then where it is when the wastegate is opened. The Blow Off Valve, on the other hand, opens to relieve boost pressure in the intake tract when you close the throttle while boosting. Without a BOV the boost pressure slams into the closed throttle plate and creates a pressure wave that goes backwards through the intake back to the turbo and into the compressor scroll. There it stalls out the turbo and you usually hear a shuttering/stuttering noise from your turbo. Over time this is hard on a turbo's bearings. With a BOV, when your boosting and you let off the gas, that sudden vacuum in the intake manifold (due to closed throttle plate) opens the BOV and allows that pressure stuck on the other side of the throttle plate to vent off to atmosphere and prevents the pressure wave. And without that pressure wave stalling out the turbo... it's faster to get back on the gas and have the turbo spool back up.

    That said, I follow what you're envisioning. A stuck wastegate would mean the turbo is always at full tilt. This would be very bad for a turbo and quickly shorten its life. So letting the turbo run max boost all the time and then just use a BOV on the intake tract to vent what you don't need. Problem here is, it takes vacuum to open the BOV. As mentioned above that vacuum comes from the intake manifold and is only created when you get OFF the gas (closed or darn near closed throttle). So while you were ON the gas there would be no vacuum to open the BOV to regulate boost and keep it from going too high (overboosting=bad too).

    And, our ECU would never allow it. It monitors boost in the intake tract before the throttle (MAP sensor on hard IC pipe going to intake) and after the throttle in the intake (MAP sensor on side of intake manifold). Any great discrepency between these two sensors (beyond what the ECU is programmed to expect) and it goes into overboost protection mode (limp mode).

    Afraid your gonna need to get that wastegate working if you want your ski to run right.
    Good luck!

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