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  1. #1

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    Questions about reflashing the ECU and SHO tuning in general?

    where can you find info on what changes are made in a R3 flash...or any ECU reprogram? What kind of timing does the stock SHO see? How much timing does the R3 change? What kind of AF does a stock ski see? What is to be expected from various reflashes? What kind of tables in the ecu are available to be modified?
    And why do we have these prepackaged ecu reflashes like R1-R3?

    I am taking it that Motec is the only option for reprogramming yourself at your location or without playing the mail order game? Any other laptop based software to mod the stock ECU like LS1edit or EFIlive?

    Are there any tools available like a water dyno or entire ski strain gauge that can be used or have been used effectively for tuning in the same way car guys use dynos to do complete tuning? It seems an apparatus where you can log info like AF ratio VS RPM VS thrust or HP would be hugely benificial. Especially if you can make tuning changes and retest immediately.

    FYI...I have a 2009 SHO cruiser that I have had for about 1 year. No mods with about 75 hours. Only thing I have done was smooth some areas around the ride plate. It was 65.3 stock and latest test was 67.1 with GPS. I will not be modding heavily for now...but would like to get another 5-8 mph out of it while maintaining reliability. But I am just beginning to read up on how to mod a PWC vs cars.
    Al


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    WVGP1200R's Avatar
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  3. #3
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    Without going into a ton of detail, the stock timimg is extremely conservative and most reflashes will take you to the 21-22 degree mark if I remember correctly. It is extremely safe. These reflases are tried and true. If they weren't you would see gobs of posts and threads of people complaining about blowing their ski up. You won't find anything like that unless there was some user error in setting up a more agressive ski.

    If you come from the car world then I can see why you might be against "mail order" tunes. Remember that these skis are much simpler than a car with a transmission. The loads are much more linear and easier to tune for. The reflases are hands down the best mod for these skis. It really opens them up. Stock A/F is pretty darn rich. In the 10s. Don't get too caught up in what all exactly is changed in them. You will drive yourself nuts. If you search you will see it has all been discussed at one point or another. The people that developed the tunes put a lot of time and money into them to make sure they give you awesome performance and are still safe.

    If anyone wants to dig up some of the threads where we go into exactly what is changed be my guest. I've talked about it till I'm blue in the face. lol

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitman View Post
    Don't get too caught up in what all exactly is changed in them. You will drive yourself nuts.
    You don't know HybridSS very well...

    Hey Hybrid, you missed a great 65 ski group ride on Saturday morning out of Dunedin.

  5. #5

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    Corey...I was out of town for the last week. Cant wait to get back out though.

    Thanks for all the replies.

    Hitman....the companies that do reflash the stock ECU....do you know what software they are using? Is it available to purchase?

    I believe you when you say that these reflashes are safe. But there are never any guarantees. Its worse IMO for finding maximum HP with any combination of mods. IMO we are leaving alot on the table unless you can have a good way to measure the power...then immediately make changes.

    So is anyone doing anything like that? The reason why I am so interested is because it appears some of the PWC community suffers from the same problem the early car community suffered from. And that is the problem of going out and buying 5-6 mods and slapping them on...then getting a canned ecu reflash and hoping it all works out in the end. If I am wrong please point out how I am wrong. I have been reading here for about 6 months and I see many instances where people spend XXXX.XX dollars on several mods only to go mildly faster on the top end and having no idea what mod did what or how the tuning played into that mod. many times I suspect the person who did all these mods for mild results could have carefully chosen 1 or 2 of those mods and gotten a similar result. In some cases I would be willing to bet money...some mods are hurting...and some are helping....and still some are negligible and not worth the money.

    IMO These engines are not so different from car engines that they wouldn't benefit from some of the same tried and true techniques employed there. All that is needed is a way to conveniently measure output through rpm range....and to make changes to timing and AF via laptop of some other means. I can see some issues already that make measuring power output difficult in a stationary ski throughout the rpm range. But someone has to have come up with something? Maybe a good accelerometer based system?

    What are the race guy doing?

    Thanks for the discussion guys....much appreciated.

  6. #6
    hitman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corey R. View Post
    You don't know HybridSS very well...
    Well if he wants to he can read up on my obsession. I wanted the potential in my ski unlocked from the day I bought it back in 08. It was a long road of learning. There is no dyno for skis that measures thrust. It's either engine dyno tuning or on the water (real world conditions) tuning that sculped the reflashes into what they are today and I can undoubetly say that the very few that have done it, are so far ahead of anyone just starting out that there is no point in even attempting it on your own.

    Here is a good starting point. http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=112306

    Almost ALL if the instances of people going out and spending money on mods and not getting results has to do with either thier combination of parts not working well together, and in most instances it has to do with them not correctly setting up their pump and prop!!! <--- This part is absolutely KEY.

    If you know what you are doing and use a PET tach to measure peak RPMs, and pitch your prop accorgingly you will get good results. It is NOT the tunes. The tunes are excellent. It is nothing like a car. It is much simpler and the stock ECU does a very good job.

    I promise you, if you purchased the software and the equipment to be able to read and write to these ECUs, there is no guarantee you would even be able to crack the rev limiter functionality. Read that thread I linked. There is a TON of info in there for you.

  7. #7

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    excellent! Looks like there is plenty to read there. Thanks a bunch.

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