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  1. #1

    MSX 110 Turbo Problem

    Hope it's something someone has heard of before. The issue (with my MSX 110) is that if I'm agressive with the throttle, the Turbo kicks off and I'm limited to 5600 rpm and 32 mph. The engine light and the red light flashes as well.

    A little history: I bought the ski a month ago and discovered on first launch that it would only go about 30mph and no turbo and had an engine light flashing. Took it to a Polaris dealer who found a short on the wires going to the spark plug on the back cylinder. 2nd launch I made the mistake of going into a weedy aread and plugged up the ski and burned out the temp probe which made the throttle stop working at all. Replaced that and launched a 3rd time. That's when I discovered that the Turbo was kicking off. If I'm gentle and just ease the throttle up over 20-30 seconds I can get 53mph @ 7550 rpm. But if I'm not gentle with the throttle the Turbo kicks off.

    PLease help. I'm really tired of shelling out money to the Polaris dealer who says he can't even look at it until next week.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Welcome

    My signature links should get you started.

    Check the info regarding a sticking wastegate.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Welcome

    My signature links should get you started.

    Check the info regarding a sticking wastegate.

    Hi. Thanks for the reply. One thing I forgot to mention is once I told the Polaris dealer what it was doing, he told me it's probably a loose hose to the turbo. I tightenes all the steel bands that keep the hoses on but nothing changed performance wise. I tried moving the rod to the wastegate and it moves without a problem although there's lots of tention from the spring. I also tride to ride without a seat and gunned it a few times. I noticed the wastegate arm did move. I couldn't go very fast as I was on Lake Ontario and it was choppy. A little hard without a seat.

    Are you saying that perhaps it's sticking a little and thus going into an overboost condition which then shuts down via the map sensors? If so how do I correct this condition. Also, is it normal for RPM's to be limited to 5600 after overboost. I thought it was supposed to be lower. Thanks.

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    I am not an expert on the Weber engines, so I primarily direct you towards the experience of others on here.

    Has this machine ever been rolled over?

    Are you aware of the misleading oil level markings on the dipstick, and what the correct oil levels are? Has the oil level ever been over filled?

    The Weber engine management system is complex and there are a number of things that can cause various symptoms. The turbo wastegate was just one possible cause.

    Lake Ontario We might be out riding there again later today!

  5. #5
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Welcome!
    Does sound like an overboost condition. If your wastegate is moving, that's good. Be sure to keep it oiled (the pivot arm sticking out of the manifold). When those suckers seize up... it's hard to get them free again. It's possible you have a slight boost leak somewhere. This would make the ECU's job of controlling boost harder... and could possibly trigger an overboost condition. Check the turbo-to-intercooler-to-intake tract for tight hoses. Also check the electronic throttle body (ETB)... sitting on top of the intake manifold. It's not uncommon for it's rubber boot seal on the intake manifold to be loose or not seated right.

    The wastegate solenoids are known to go bad too. But those *usually* fail in their unpowered position which is full boost to the wastegate actuator... which means you won't get over 6psi of boost (unless the solenoid is working). Check to make sure those little lines are secure and have no holes in them. That would act as a bleed and make it really hard for the ECU to control boost... and probably trigger an overboost.

    Also pull the turbo-to-intercooler hose. Make sure it's clean and dry. If it's coated in oil inside the hose... you've got the dreaded oil ingestion recirculation problem. This can be caused by rolling the ski over or by too high of oil level in the oil tank or possibly water in oil creating foam which gets sucked back through the emissions recirculation hose. I'd also pull the intercooler-to-intake pipe/hoses and check those. Inside this pipe is one of the MAP sensors the ECU uses to read boost (before the throttle). There's a second MAP sensor on the front side of the intake manifold that the ECU uses to read boost (after throttle) and also to sense air temps. If these MAP sensors get coated in oil... it messes up their readings... and the ECU will go wonky and throw errors and run poorly.

    Read the MSX110/150 info from K447's signature link. Be sure to get your oil level correct. And let us know what you find.

    Cheers!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    I am not an expert on the Weber engines, so I primarily direct you towards the experience of others on here.

    Has this machine ever been rolled over?

    Are you aware of the misleading oil level markings on the dipstick, and what the correct oil levels are? Has the oil level ever been over filled?

    The Weber engine management system is complex and there are a number of things that can cause various symptoms. The turbo wastegate was just one possible cause.

    Lake Ontario We might be out riding there again later today!

    I'm not the first owner so I don't know if it's been rolled over but the oil was full to the markings on the dipstick and I emptied it until it was just visible on the stick after realizing that the markings were incorrect. What's the best way and product to use to lube the wastegate?

    Where do you launch on Lake Ontario?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ripcuda View Post
    Welcome!
    Does sound like an overboost condition. If your wastegate is moving, that's good. Be sure to keep it oiled (the pivot arm sticking out of the manifold). When those suckers seize up... it's hard to get them free again. It's possible you have a slight boost leak somewhere. This would make the ECU's job of controlling boost harder... and could possibly trigger an overboost condition. Check the turbo-to-intercooler-to-intake tract for tight hoses. Also check the electronic throttle body (ETB)... sitting on top of the intake manifold. It's not uncommon for it's rubber boot seal on the intake manifold to be loose or not seated right.

    The wastegate solenoids are known to go bad too. But those *usually* fail in their unpowered position which is full boost to the wastegate actuator... which means you won't get over 6psi of boost (unless the solenoid is working). Check to make sure those little lines are secure and have no holes in them. That would act as a bleed and make it really hard for the ECU to control boost... and probably trigger an overboost.

    Also pull the turbo-to-intercooler hose. Make sure it's clean and dry. If it's coated in oil inside the hose... you've got the dreaded oil ingestion recirculation problem. This can be caused by rolling the ski over or by too high of oil level in the oil tank or possibly water in oil creating foam which gets sucked back through the emissions recirculation hose. I'd also pull the intercooler-to-intake pipe/hoses and check those. Inside this pipe is one of the MAP sensors the ECU uses to read boost (before the throttle). There's a second MAP sensor on the front side of the intake manifold that the ECU uses to read boost (after throttle) and also to sense air temps. If these MAP sensors get coated in oil... it messes up their readings... and the ECU will go wonky and throw errors and run poorly.

    Read the MSX110/150 info from K447's signature link. Be sure to get your oil level correct. And let us know what you find.

    Cheers!

    WOW!!! That's a lot of info!!! Thanks.

    I just took it to a Polaris dealer an hour away and he quickly checked it for free with digital wrench since I've already shelled out $600 to him in the last few weeks for other repairs. It told him there was a problem with the wastegate pressure controler. It did register that it had overboosted. I found that odd since I saw the wastegate rod moving when I was riding it but he said that it's possible that even though it works somewhat, that it doesn't work as it should. The part is about $280. I told him I'd get back to him.Think I should get it done?

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msteve7957 View Post
    ... Where do you launch on Lake Ontario?
    Usually we launch from Bluffer's Park in Scarborough.

    Sometimes I will use Ashbridges Bay if I want to start off closer to the Toronto islands or I am feeling lazy. Ashbriges Bay ramps often have lots of trash in the water at the ramps, so I tend to go to Bluffer's.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Usually we launch from Bluffer's Park in Scarborough.

    Sometimes I will use Ashbridges Bay if I want to start off closer to the Toronto islands or I am feeling lazy. Ashbriges Bay ramps often have lots of trash in the water at the ramps, so I tend to go to Bluffer's.
    OH OK. I'm in Brantford and been launching in Grimsby.

  10. #10
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msteve7957 View Post
    I just took it to a Polaris dealer an hour away and he quickly checked it for free with digital wrench since I've already shelled out $600 to him in the last few weeks for other repairs. It told him there was a problem with the wastegate pressure controler. It did register that it had overboosted. I found that odd since I saw the wastegate rod moving when I was riding it but he said that it's possible that even though it works somewhat, that it doesn't work as it should. The part is about $280. I told him I'd get back to him.Think I should get it done?
    Which part? The wastegate actuator (diaphragm can that moves the rod)? The wastegate solenoid? You can test the actuator buy rigging up a way to pump pressure to it... like a bicycle valve in a hose using a tire pump with a Tee in there for a gauge. At 5psi your actuator should start to move. By 8psi... it should reach max extension. If it doesn't... you can adjust the threaded rod arm on it... to a point. As for the solenoid, take off the hose and blow through it. It has one "in" port and two "out" ports. Blow in the bottom "in" port and see which "out" port it flows to. With solenoid unpowered/unplugged... it should flow to port that has a hose going to wastegate actuator. Then take a jumper wire and put 12vdc to the solenoid. You should hear it click and with it still wired up... blow though "in" again. It should be flowing out the open "out" port... the one that had no hose connected to it. If this all works... your solenoid is working properly.

    As for the wastegate itself. It's possible it's sticking. Get some oil... any oil will do... whatever you got. Or even PBblaster or ATF... and drip it around the pivot. And go to town on opening it over and over. The actuator spring will pull it shut... and it's a pretty heavy spring... but keep doing it. You should have a good inch of arm travel. If this works smoothly... then you should be able to rule out a sticking wastegate.

    Still... before I would shell out more $$... check the other things I mentioned. You need to confirm you don't have an oil ingestion issue... or leaky ETB seat.

    Cheers!

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